Thursday, August 21, 2008

Truth and lies.

I want to thank those who e-mailed me (to point me to the NPZ post). I wasn't feeling well today, so I probably wouldn't have seen it as soon if it hadn't been for your e-mails.

On that note, I know many of you saw his post. In some ways, I'm glad that he posted the post he did because it made it possible to discover how he seemed to know so much about our family. Back in 1999, I started a livejournal that was dedicated to my children. At the time, I only had P1 and P2. The letters were my attempt to put their history on paper as it happened. I also wanted them to see why I made certain choices. And, I've found that time tends to change our reasons for doing what we do. Hindsight is 20/20, after all. It was important to me that they knew the truth of their lives. I didn't have that advantage and, still, to this day, I don't have answers or insight regarding childhood events.

So...I made the journal. On the eve of my wedding to PDaddy, I wrote a note to P1 and P2 explaining why I divorced their ex-PDaddy. I said a variety of things in the note. One important point, to me, was that they knew that despite any of the bad choices I, or my ex, made, they were not us and should not see genetic relationships as a harbinger of their future. Particularly because my ex was unfaithful and other negative character attributes: I did not want P2 to think that he was "cursed". Some people may think that's odd, but... it was necessary. My ex repeated, almost action for action, the actions of his father (abandoning his children for good, leaving a wife w/children in financial ruin, and cheating). At one point in our marriage, my Ex-MIL had said (about my ex-Husband), "His apple didn't fall far from the tree." I thought that was a horrible thing to say and it made me wonder if she had a part in his self-confidence when it came to marriage.

I also wrote the letter as an apology to P1 and P2. They didn't choose to be born. And, in some ways, I still feel like I let them down (with regards to my first marriage). I got married out of a feeling of obligation to the Catholic Church and P1. I thought marrying my boyfriend would make him a good father. Of course, that's not how it works. I apologized to them because I knew he and I weren't ready for marriage, but I didn't stop it. But, at the same time, P2 came out of that marriage. I wouldn't change that for the world. P2 doesn't remember his bio dad. He was so little when we split. P1 remembers. So, as a sign of respect for her especially...I let her decide who to share these things with. I never, ever, ever will say bad things about their biological father to them. And, posting about him brings temptation to do so. That's why I avoided it. (For the record, she gave me the okay to share what I'm sharing right now.) Pdaddy adopted them legally and has been their father always in all ways. He is their daddy. And, our life has been wonderful. But, on the eve of our wedding, I wanted them to know that I was marrying Pdaddy out of love, as opposed to marriage out of obligation and wished that they would marry for love and choice (someday).

NPZ (Thomas) bastardized this letter. He tried to claim it was proof that I "trapped" ex-Pdaddy. Nothing could be further from the truth. But, more intriguing than his lack of understanding was the fact that that letter was PRIVATE. It had never been a public letter. EVER! And, in fact, only twelve people knew about that blog and had access to read it. This meant he had to know someone who had access to that blog. As soon as I realized that, I realized that I knew exactly who he was. His sister-in-law was one of my first friendships on LJ. She had access to the letters blog. Because I posted in it rather infrequently post 2001 (when I moved to a paper-pen journal for this purpose), I had forgot that some people could still read those letters from the past. His sister-in-law was LIVID when I started this blog. If you go back to my earliest entries, you'll see that part of my reason for starting this blog was an effort to keep my LJ friends from being constantly offended. She and I got into a huge internet argument and parted ways. Apparently, she holds some grudges. When I posted about Quiverfull families, she pointed her brother to this blog and fueled him with ancient information. I'm stunned that any one would be that perturbed almost two years later.

It appears that NPZ deleted the post. But, I want everyone to know why he deleted the post. See...once I recognized how I was connected to him (by an ex-friend), it struck me that I knew some dirt about he and his wife. Nancy's sister was a gossip. One memory was the post where she discussed her sister's (Nancy's) shot-gun wedding and birth three months post honeymoon. Another was a post regarding his problems with taxes. Starting in 2001, he evaded paying them. He claimed that, as a minister, his house should be tax exempt. He was also selling motivational tapes without recording the income. Another, perhaps more concerning story, included Nancy calling the cops on his for a domestic dispute.

He's no angel. He's a hypocrite! I wasn't going to post these little tidbits. And, in a way, I'm going back on my word that I would not post his short-comings if he pulled the post. BUT, being the arrogant ass that he is, he sent me the following e-mail before deleting his post.

"I got forgiving blessing from God about those things. Share them and you'll have egg on your face cause I am about truth."

I took that as permission. So,...how's the egg on my face looking?


43 comments:

Karen said...

Wow. So much for the "we prayed about it, and God showed us we needed to counter your blog with one of our own" or some such BS. But I've no doubt the NPZ denizens still believe it. They've convinced themselves of it. Lying gets easier with practice, especially lying to oneself.

The no-possum-zone really is a fantasy world. I feel SOOO sorry for those children.

Oh, and PMomma, I hope you start feeling better ASAP.

Milo Johnson said...

Furthermore, once you have lied yourself into believing foolish fairy tales, lying to the rest of the world is easy.

Paul said...

[silentsanta, NZ]

I feel kinda heartbroken after his latest antics; over the last few months I have spent a lot of time trying to construct an open, honest dialogue with the man (and his wife),... but I think his latest actions show the cause to be hopeless. And I feel part of what happened to you is my fault.

Through engaging him, I think I validated his incoherent obsession with you; although he does already have his wife and self-chosen isolation to amplify his sociopathy.
I think we can all see now how his projection of his own failings onto you is the reason why he's got such a bee in his bonnet...
the man really is wracked through with guilt, and it's eating him all up. And given that his father is a minister, and the kind of social circles he must have grown up in, he must have gone through exactly the kind of hell he wanted to put you through...

I'm sorry pMomma, I think I have to bear some of the blame for this. I had good intentions, but -as I am finding in my adult life- good intentions aren't enough.

I'm feeling pretty miserable all around, actually; I'm quite distraught to see how much damage religion has done to this poor creature, and grieved to see him perpetuating this contagious ignorance on his own children. And it seems almost Orwellian how much of his humanity has been stripped by his religious fervor.

Paul said...

[silentsanta, NZ]

And NPZ, if you're reading this I'm sure you're still confused as to what it is you did that upset everybody. Let me lay it out for you:

You demand standards from others that you don't meet yourself. You dredge up uncomfortable histories from others but when your own is exposed, you hide it away (I saw and commented on the post you deleted).
You have chosen to pronounce one law for you, and a different law for everybody else. Just who in the hell do you think you are?

I suggest you sit down and have a long think about what you did wrong today. You might also want to read this.

Autonomous said...

I will no longer post on the NPZ site. He has been acting like a petulant child and I refuse to give him the attention he craves. If he learns to behave like an adult from this (doubtful) perhaps a dialogue may do some good, but until then it is pointless.

Please keep this post up as it will show him for what he truly is-a pathetic hypocrit lashing out at someone who he has projected his own 'sins' onto. (Good call, Paul)

Cogito said...

PMomma, I do think if you promised to delete personal information about Tom & Nancy, you should do so. Take the high road.

I however made no promises, and since they have made public figures of themselves and put their credibility on the line, I have no problem airing their dirty laundry.

These people really are just crumbs.

Carina said...

Lady, I've been reading your blog for a while now and love every post. Because I am horrible at keeping up with blogs on a regular basis, even the ones of my real-life friends, I missed the beginning of this drama with NPZ and had to catch up on the changes to your postings lately. I've never commented before because you get so many well-written, well-thought out responses that were saying what I wanted to better than I ever could anyway. But this...this just takes the cake.

What you said was that you would post these things if he didn't remove his post. You never specified a time-line and as far as I, personally, am concerned he didn't deserve even that much of a "warning" (but then, I tend to be a childish, vengeful b****). These people are not playing by any rules but their own, they need to learn that when you venture into the real world you need to be a little more prepared to accept the consequences of your actions. They could have, and should have, stayed in the kiddie pool; *they* made the choice to attempt to jump into the big kids pool without learning to swim first. The only egg I see has been coving them for a while now.

Please take care of yourself. I can't begin to imagine how the stress from all of this must affect you. I'll offer cyber-hugs and promise that tho I might not be the most "adult" of readers I am also not a cyberstalker :) Just someone who has come to care about you and your family thru your words. Hang in there.

Xena said...

Normally I would enjoy a drama such as this, but I find Tom and Nancy so incredibly boring that I'm ready for this all to be over. Can you please let this be the last NPZ post? We all know that without any attention being paid to NPZ that it will just fade away. They have no orginal thoughts to put up there. And the thoughts they do put up there are so incoherrent that it pains me to even attempt to read them.

So they are hypocritial Christians. Anyone surprised?

boiled toothpaste said...

So Nancy was pregnant when she got married and they want to bash you for having been pregnant at the time you married your ex???

I don't know what sort of problem these people have but I bet it's hard to pronounce and requires medication.

boiled toothpaste said...

Oh, btw, I highly commend you for writing letters to your children the way you did. I would give anything to have such a treasure from my mother. That is just a really heartfelt, beautiful thing to do.

CrypticLife said...

Well, we knew they were intolerant, rude, and stupid. We also know now that they're slimy liars and hypocrites (though we might have suspected that already).

Sisyphus Fragment said...

Know them by their deeds. Hypocritical Tom and Nancy spewing hate and praising Jesus, all in one breath!

charlalei said...

I feel like I played a role in having your personal thoughts bandied about by this miserable scum. I asked what I presumed would be a rhetorical question about how he could know something about your motives, unaware that he was merely a pawn in someone else's grudge match.

Sorry, PMomma.... :-(

Ms. Knitpicky said...

I think you wear that egg rather well. :)

I'm usually a lurker but felt a need to comment on a couple of things today.

One, the worst sort of Christians are the ones who use the concept of forgiveness as a carte blanche to do whatever they want--they know it's wrong as they're doing it--and then pray god will forgive them later. And then they believe that makes it A-OK like it didn't happen. There are specific verses from the bible even covering it and how that is not how it works--funny a biblical literalist would happen to forget that.

Truth is not about gossiping and dragging others through the mud. Truth is not about twisting events to your interpretation of them. And Truth should never be used to try and cover up your own dirty little secrets.

And two, I can sympathize about your ex. My husband had the same issues early on in our marriage: he was convinced that he was doomed to live his father's life and would often do things to try and make it come true (I do not believe it was intentional, however). It took a lot of encouragement and reminding him that he is not his father before he stopped believing he was meant to live alone, miserable, and drinking himself to death. The pull of fatalism on some people can be strong; so strong it's downright scary.

Anywho, I've been wanting to give you kudos for some time about how well you've handled your troll/stalker issue with that other blog. And I fully agree: it's alarming how long some people can hold a grudge and refuse to let things go.

Vamp said...

TRAPPED???? So you should've had an abortion instead, is that what they meant???? WTF? Then, they themselves did the exact same thing?

My blood pressure is boiling right now. What hypocrites, is right.

Delete them, ban them, you don't need this anymore.

And that bitch from LJ, what's up with her? Funny you didn't name her, she deserves to have her name dragged thru the mud too. She seems to be getting off easy here. But I know you're really not that kind of person, you're actually too nice and trusting sometimes for your own good.

I wish you peace.

Enshoku said...

NPZ is pissed as hell at possum momma for posting this info. He did however, make a very *wonderful* comment regarding P-momma's marriage. I wrote a response to it, aand figured I'd post the link here as well.

http://enshoku.blogspot.com/2008/08/woman-you-are-wonderfully-egotistical.html

Calladus said...

One of the most beautiful things I've read in weeks was something that Thomas posted on NPZ.

Unfortunately for Thomas, the beautiful part was when he was quoting your letter to P1 and P2.

I wish my Mother had done something like that.

P-momma, about Nancy and Thomas. (I'll always put HER name first - just to irk him)

These two don't welcome you, they don't care about you, honestly they could care less if you go to Hell (if there were a hell). They don't care about your "soul", and they don't care about you or your family as people.

They don't listen to you, and will do their utmost to twist your words into something ugly.

They HATE you, with the pure blinding self-righteous hate that is only possible when supported by religion.

And you, like most of us, can only scrape up pity for them, and perhaps some disgust at their antics.

It's time for you to follow Mark 6:11. Shake their dust off of your sandals as a testimony against them. Ignore them. It is the ultimate indignity that they can face.

But don't worry - I'll keep an eye on their blog - as I'm sure many will. We can point out their rampant hypocrisy when necessary.

They are like the poisonous black widow spider behind my garage. I know he's there and I keep a wary eye on him. But he has zero impact on me, and no importance in my life. And if he gets uppity, I'll just step on him.

Perpetual Beginner said...

Tom really exemplifies GK Chesterton's comment "Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It's been found difficult and left untried."

Which is true of all of us who try to be Christians. Some of us, though, are acutely aware of all the ways in which we fall short and do our best to not excoriate others for very human failings, remembering that we have them too.

Others have an equally acute blindness to their own faults, holding others to impossible standards they they themselves do not even come close to meeting.

Self-righteousness is a pernicious disease. I wish Tom & Nancy speedy cures, but I don't hold out much hope.

poodlesplace said...

I think for the sake of your health you need to put these people behind you. They are toxic. Ignore and ban them. You need to take care of you. You don't need their crap.

*hugs*

Vamp said...

No Calladus, then you bring the hatred in your home too.

EVERYONE must stop entering there "web" to be cleansed of their uneducated backwoods drivel.

Vamp said...

Dammit, "THEIR" WEB...ugh!

Berlzebub said...

@ Paul:
You tried to engage someone in a conversation in order to better understand them. There is no shame or guilt needed for that.

Charlalei:
You asked a reasonable question, and I, for one, am actually glad you did. What NPZ posted was the only good thing I've ever seen on their blog. It was heartfelt, intimate, and touching. Also, tellingly, it wasn't authored by NPZ.

I'm actually inclined to believe that's why NPZ made that statement. He was hoping someone would ask for the evidence, so he could unveil the "truth". Unfortunately, his interpretation of the truth didn't fit with what everyone else saw when they read it.

aimee said...

Double WOW! That has got to be one of the biggest cases for being a hypocrit I have ever seen.

I agree with everyone else. Your letter was beautiful to your children.

I was kind of in the same situation as you, only the pressure came from myself (if that makes sense) and not from a church. I was 19 when I got pregnant and thought getting married was what I was supposed to do. My parents even gave me an out, but they had already spent so much money...
I was separated with two boys two years later, finally divorced two years after that. Met my current (and last) husband while I was going through my divorce. Got remarried, and now we have a 3 yr old daughter together.

We made my boys very much a part of our wedding ceremony. There was a part where my husband said vows to them as well, and they gave me away. This last December I finally got my ex to sign away his rights so my husband could adopt them, then he went and committed suicide in March.

Anyway, I hope that you do not feel guilty for going through what you did when you had P1 and P2. As gross as it is for me to think about how my two boys got here, I like to think that as miserable as I was (verbally, physically, mentally abused), had I not gone through it all, I wouldn't have met my husband when I did and be extremely happy now.

My point is, you made choices that was not only better for you, but for your kids in the end and that is what matters.

I hope you get to feeling better soon.

reddhedd said...

P, Momma,

I want to re-post something I put on the asshat's blog, because I think he'll delete it. It's for his wife..I hope you don't mind, and I hope she gets to read it, either there (not likely) or here.


I don't really blame Nancy...after finding out you are a wife beater, I'm sure she has to go along and say what you want in order to avoid a beating...and I bet you still hit her anyway, don't you?


Nancy, hon, if you get to read this before Tom deletes it...it's never gonna get better, only worse.
Are you gonna let your husband teach your daughters that beatings are a normal part of love, and teach your sons that it's right and proper to beat their wives?
As a mother, don't you want more for your kids?

Your husband is a hypocritical asshole...there is NO god in his heart, only evil, and he's teaching it to your children. And obviously, your god has exposed your husband's wickedness through this blog...so you are no longer alone; we all know what your husband is, and what he does
. You know this is true, don't you? That's why you aren't allowed to post anymore...you're not really ill, are you? Tom can't risk your gaining the spirit to dump his lying, violent, worthless carcass. We were opening your mind, weren't we, and that scared him.
Just leave...there are so many places to go...stop into any school, a REAL church, a library, or even the fire department and ask for help. You'll find good people who want to help, and you'll be safe. Gather your kids and GO, for their sakes. Don't wait til the baby is born, don't pack...just seek safety; you'll never find it at home.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

I outed her on NPZ, Woof. But, he deleted it. Her first name is Shannon and her last name used to be Carlehe (I think I just butchered that spelling). She's probably married, by now, so I don't know what she her last name is these days. And, she stopped posting long ago (which is why I kind of forgot about her).

zenmom said...

Wow. Those people are incredibly creepy. I'm sorry you have to put up with their annoying cyber-stalking. I guess they will never see the irony that they are only showing their own (creepy) true colors by their continued harrassment. But, I wanted to say thanks for your great blogs. And kudos to you for not letting them drag you down. :)

Nicholas said...

A minister who is a hypocrite and and arrogant ass. Gosh! There's a surprise!

Vamp said...

It was good to talk to you tonite. Don't forget to check out Haloscan as an option to delete/ban idiots like this, once and for all.

Woof

Enkidu said...

He's dog s**t. Why you track it into your life I can't understand. Simply don't read his blog. Your friends will delete his posts here. Don't read his emails, set up a rule to delete them unread.

Nobody who knows you cares what they say if you don't care. Stop caring.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

Enkidu,
I may be misreading you, but I feel like you're being a bit feisty. I have a grand total of four or five posts (out of 476 posts) about this situation. That's hardly evidence of over-attention. But, to each his own. I can only say that it's a bit tougher to ignore the naysayer when it's your reputation in the hot seat. Now that I know who he is and why he's doing what he does, I plan to ignore him.

DB said...

I think it is rather interesting to see how low these "christians" are willing to go to prove their faith. I wonder who they are trying to impress because they certainly are missing whatever points of love that they claim jesus taught them. Hypocrites.

ozatheist said...

NPZ is a right asshat.

Now you've exposed him, hopefully he'll go away.

Cris said...

"I disciplin my wife and children if it when it needs doing like our Bible says. Beating from domestic violence is not the same because I know how to use it right some poeple dont use it right. My daddy did it to my mom my sons will do it in their houses but it means wives or girls can say that it was to rough and a husband living in God will stop before carring it to far. Dont talk about it like you know how we use it."

I don't live in the US, so I am not sure how things work there, but couldn't this person be reported to the social workers?

MrQhuest said...

Cris,
That is perhaps the most horrifying thing that I have read in a long time. Only through 'faith' can one justify such actions. When one talks to ones partner rationally, you realize there is no reason, no justification to "disciplin [ones] wife and children."

While I have been curious about NPZ, I now have no desire to visit their site.

PM, maybe you should remove the links to their site in your past postings.

Good luck PM, in putting this behind you.

Brigit said...

Jeebs, I just read what that psychotic jerk wrote on the stupid site. How self-deluded do you have to be to justify beating the crap out of your wife and kids?
I just hope some random person from social services reads that! He's glad he's perpetuating a vicious cycle of violence, WTF!

Look here Thomas the wife beater, there is no reason to be physically violent to your family. Actually, it's fricken illegal to do so. I hope you get to rot in jail before you seriously harm all of those you supposedly love. Not that you haven't done it already.

Enkidu said...

P-momma,

Ever been to www.ratemyteachers.com? Every teacher has had their reputation smeared on sites like this. But you can't fight it. Simply ignore it and move is the only way.

Perpetual Beginner said...

Wow. Most people who beat their wives at least have the grace to pretend to be ashamed about it.

If my husband were to beat me, he would fully expect to wake up in the hospital. But since he thinks this is the sane and logical response of an adult to a beating, he's unlikely to ever test-out my ability to do so.

Erin said...

I remember that journal, and I remember the beautiful words you wrote. And I cannot believe that someone (well, someones really) would sink so low as to exploit that. I know that there are people out there carrying around a great deal of hatred and darkness, so I shouldn't be surprised at it, but I am sorry this was used against you.

Camerond44 said...

Enkidu said...Enkidu said...
He's dog s**t. Why you track it into your life I can't understand. Simply don't read his blog. Your friends will delete his posts here. Don't read his emails, set up a rule to delete them unread.

You are really bossy. You know that, don't you? Did you read what she wrote?

PM said, "Now that I know who he is and why he's doing what he does, I plan to ignore him."

Nobody who knows you cares what they say if you don't care.
Speak for yourself. I care what people say about possummomma. She's as good a friend as any friends I've got. I know NPZ is a stupid hick. I know PM is a class act. I know both because I've been around a year. New readers may not know that.
Stop caring.
Are you commanding or suggesting that she stop caring?


Enkidu said...
P-momma,

Ever been to www.ratemyteachers.com? Every teacher has had their reputation smeared on sites like this. But you can't fight it. Simply ignore it and move is the only way.

What's your problem? You're not her mother. She's said she will be ignoring him. Still you're right here commanding her to ignore him like a third grade yard aide. The difference with ratemyteacher is that you have a moderated forum to leave 100 characters worth of opinion. NPZ is a blog that could go on for years to slam one person. If his site were ratemyatheist then you'd have a point. You can have allegations of sexual impropriety or lies erased from ratemyteacher. NPZ could spew lies all day with no checks or balance. That's why she can't ignore his shit.

Enshoku said...

@Ozatheist

not a snowball's chance in hell. Based on his personality alone, this will just cause him to huggle to the heels of possummomma even more.

Rev. BigDumbChimp said...

This quote from him is telling enough on the type of person You have been dealing with

I disciplin my wife and children if it when it needs doing like our Bible says. Beating from domestic violence is not the same because I know how to use it right some poeple dont use it right. My daddy did it to my mom my sons will do it in their houses but it means wives or girls can say that it was to rough and a husband living in God will stop before carring it to far. Dont talk about it like you know how we use it.


What a scumbag.

AlisonM said...

Why don't these people ever surprise us? Why does it always come down to them condemning specific sins in others that they themselves are guilty of?

It's as if there's a special church with only a couple of rules. Number one, if you did something you feel bad about doing, be a loud voice of opposition to other people doing it. Number two, if you're doing something that you think is fine but is really unacceptable, be a loud voice of opposition to other people who aren't doing it. Not only should everyone be afraid of doing what you're afraid of being caught doing, but everyone should be afraid that they're not doing what you have really good excuses for doing. Never back down, no matter what other people think of you, and regardless of any facts that might contradict your opinion.

If this could just be re-written into something suitably grandiose- sounding, nobody would need a Bible anymore.

Baal's Bum said...

I have been away for a few days so I have missed all this. I want you to know. You have done nothing wrong at all. From what I have read from your blog you come over as a family that can only be admired. A shining example of love honesty and good parenting. All I see from NPZ is jealousy, hateful jealousy of the worst kind.I really feel for his kids and to some extent his wife, perhaps if she could go against her upbringing, and show a little sense she would take the kids and run. I suspect however there is little chance.
Is there any chance is failing grip on reality could be used to have him taken out of harms way ?