Tuesday, April 15, 2008

Smell that distinct smell?

Check out this video. Watch until the end. It's not long.

Apparently, after some of the mothers were returned to the YFZ Ranch, without their children, they called a press conference. For the first time since YFZ was built, reporters were allowed in. None of the men presented themselves for interviews...only the women.

I would love to say that I believe the last woman ("Marie") on the clip. But, her mannerisms and intonations seem exceedingly insincere. Her body language suggests that she's lying. What do you think? What clenched it, for me, was the fake crying (note that she's squenching her eyes and giving the appearance of chest heaving sobs, wiping at her eyes, but...there are no tears, no red eyes, no ACTUAL sobs, no runny nose, etc.,.).

"Ohhhhhh...forgive all man kind. And, I'm grateful for the many kind
people who truly cared. There were many who truly cared. There was one CPS
worker who said...*dramatic pause*..."We messed up."" - Marie

Rrrrrrrrrright. I didn't know that the FLDS gave out Oscars.
I can empathize with a mother who loses her child. I, honestly, can't imagine how horrible that would be. In a perfect world, children would never have to be removed from their families. And, as I've said before, I have no doubt that some of these FLDS mothers are brainwashed every bit as much as the children are. They're victims, too. However, these are the same mothers who've lied to state officials about the ages and relationships of the women and children collected in the raid. These are mothers who have proven, time-and-time again, that they will protect their husbands and the principle before they will protect their children. Marie - you really want your children back? Leave the religion wherein your six year old is pre-promised to a fifty year old. Simple as that. You can practice polygamy. You can practice fundamental mormonism. I think it's all crap, but just doing those things isn't breaking any laws or hurting a child. However, what has been done on that ranch and in that temple is flat-out wrong! Find a fundamental polygamous sect where women have to be 18 to be married and do so willingly and no one will give you a second glance.


Jim said...

Well, it might come off as an "ad hominem" attack, but at least it wasn't the woman the ABC news was interviewing earlier today who was so badly in need of an eyebrow tweezing that my 80-something father-in-law referred to her as "sasquatch"...

Either way, the brainwashing comes through *quite* nicely on High Def...disturbingly so...

Joseph Smith has to be one of the best documented con-men in modern times with the possible exception of L. Ron Hubbard, yet that does not seem to dissuade these folks in the slightest.

The stories at www.exmormon.org are positively scary!

L.A. said...

I agree with you, Pmomma, but the way I see it is that these situation will never be solved until these closed and fundamentalist societies will be allowed.
Any community in which children are isolated and brainwashed creates immature adults who don't really have any free will. In these cases, it doesn't matter if a girl, 18 or older, marries willingly, because she was programmed since birth to do so and to have a very limited role in her community. These girls and women can't be considered as consenting adults who had the chance to make an informed decision.

Religions can't be outlawed, but kids could at least be made to go to regular schools where they could receive a more complete education.

Poodles said...

I am very torn on this whole situation. I absolutely believe that child rape is wrong. And if I thought that taking the kids away would end this whole group I would be all for it.

I am however worried we are turning them into martyrs to their own people.

I think the only thing that could truly end the child rape part of this would be education. And if we force them further into hiding then they will never get the education they need.

It just sucks all the way around.

Rev. BigDumbChimp said...

We aren't turning them into Martyrs because they already consider themselves to be so. Their whole existence is one of martyrdom. We are the good god fearing folk sacrificing for the Lord and living the principle while all those bad evil people seek to destroy us.

There should be nothing to be torn about. This was the right thing to do. Religious persecution has nothing to do with it. This is about laws. They live in this country and should follow the laws, ancient scriptures be damned.

Godless Geek said...

I saw and interview this morning on the Today show with three woman of the woman and the YFZ attorney. When the interviewer asked about forcing girls as young as 13 into marriage, one of the women protested that there was no forced marriage, that it was all voluntary. Following up, the interviewer asked how could a thirteen year old girl be able to voluntarily marry men as old as 50, the woman started trying to avoid the question and implying that they didn't do that. The follow up was a point blank "How young are girls allowed to marry?" At this point the woman has looked down, away from the camera, and is stammering and stumbling on words and was never able to put together a coherent sentence. After about 15 seconds the lawyer jumps in and answers the question for her. It was creepy.

Poodles said...

Rev. Bigdumbchimp,
I don't disagree with you. We do need to protect the children. The problem will come if they let the women who are of legal age return to the men. They will just make more babies, that is part of their duty. They will move the compound and it will all begin again, in secret until it comes out in public again. The history of what happened in Short Creek proves that. Just taking the kids away is treating the symptom and not finding the cure.

These groups are part of the reason I think polygamy needs to be legalized, then they might be allowed to be a more open society and perhaps we could help them understand why it is wrong to supress women and rape children.

Karen said...

It's the raping of young girls that's the utmost problem. How can our society put safeguards in place that can protect the children while supporting the first amendment rights of the adults? These "spiritual" marriages are often not even legal ones, so there's no paperwork to trace the underage bride. I'm fairly libertarian on many issues, but I don't see a solution to this without infringing on the rights of the parents... but it needs doing.

Maybe, if a record of all the children growing up in such a place is kept, the underage girls who become pregnant could be immediately removed from the cult. That wouldn't save them from rape, but it would put a serious damper on underage "marriage". Perhaps, after a few removals, the cult might re-think its insistence on marrying girls off before some reasonable age of consent.

To encourage this, perhaps it is reasonable to require all teenagers to pass some sort of test before they can be considered a functioning adult. (exceptions made for those with properly diagnosed learning disabilities, of course). Passing such a test would require enough schooling that these children would be exposed to as least the edifice of the outside world.

Does this fix the problem? Of course not. But it does discourage babies from having babies, and gives the average girl more years of potential exposure to the sanity of the outside world before she gets locked into being a baby factory.

It pains me to suggest whacking such small chips off the edifice of evil, but the U.S. society is already veering perilously close to being a police state. In the interest of millions of people who deserve their liberty, I am reluctant to encourage laws that promote wholesale interference into people's differing ways of life, even though I think they are damaging to the people engaging in them.

Hound Doggy said...

I wonder why they haven't rounded up the men. They are the ones who have committed a crime.
There is enough evidence, imo, to gain a warrant for DNA of the men and babies and mothers. If they aren't forthcoming about the relationships, do the tests...(I realize there are 100's of people and all of that would take a lot of $$$ and time)...
If it can be proven they are the father with an underage mother....put em' away.
It seems like they are punishing the wrong people in this.

AmberKatt said...

It's the eyes. The eyes on the women, especially that last, supposedly-sobbing one, are flat and expressionless.

There was an online research test I took last year, I forget who created it, where you were shown photos of people expressing various emotions, and you clicked whether you thought the person was emoting for real or faking it. I scored surprisingly high, and it was because I looked at the eyes. Indeed, the study's results at the end said that it is the eyes that are the truest indicators of genuine emotions.

As for the first two women, they reminded me of the oozing syncerity and fake empathy expressed by Dolores Umbridge in that Order of the Phoenix Harry Potter movie.