Friday, January 18, 2008

Update for Friday

J, again.
Just got off the phone with Chris. Seems she was tired of talking and didn't want to talk to me (do you feel sorry for me?). Seems a guy named Berlzebub called her up. Rumor has it they chatted for an hour. No, no, no. I get it. I'm not needed anymore. *wink* From the way she sounded when I talked to her, that was just what she needed. I'm guessing she gets tired of talking to me, Bethanna, Vamp and Mike every day.

I'm making this update because her hands and fingers are giving her grief. She is still burning up - word has it the temp is steady at 103. Strep complications and acheyness.

O.k. On to questions -
1. If you wanted an address and did not get one from someone today, please e-mail DCam, Bethanna. They seem to be taking care of that.
DCam - camerond44 at yahoo dot com
Beth - bananabethanna at yahoo dot com
2. Vamp is correct in her assessment. Pmomma is ready to blow the lupus Popsicle stand. But, she did seem more chipper this evening.
3. Mayyoursoulsleep - Kiss my ass. You're nicer than some fundies that linger 'round here. The message, however, is the same. Dcam is a Christian and you don't see him tossing it in her face on this blog. That shit is personal. Leave it be. Chris has never discouraged a friend's faith. We give her the same courtesy in return.
4. Perpetual Beginner and Brigit - She has voiced no object to wool gloves. Another reader recommended wristies and Chris has added these to her amazon list, per requests.
5. Aimee - did you get a response?

She sends out hugs and grateful wishes to all.

23 comments:

Lionel-mayyoursoulsleep said...

My name is Lionel. I use mayyoursoulsleep as my moniker.

I am appauled by the rude responses. I don't like your atheist self worship and your treatment of my friends is low. I don't understand the reason I was the victim of harsh criticism.

A Good Samaritan is someone who will help a stranger and expect nothing in return.
Un like the two individuals you claim to be friends. Read back through their comments and see the ridiculous and hateful statements they have come up with. If you still agree with them I feel sorry for you.

Coop and Heather gave you not one disturbance. They wished what we all must wish for as servants of the Almighty Creator. It is the most loving action.

you say PM is gods child and he is testing her
well I am a father and would not do that to my children. so as one of your gods children I divorce him he has failed by my standards as a father, a friend and an example.

Some suffering is caused by the inheritance of mortality originating from Adam and Eve's disobedience to God, which includes vulnerability to illness and disease. God did not make opossummom sick; it was the sin of Adam and Eve. Also, Satan pervades the earth, causing pain and suffering. Many believe that suffering is God's design to test, teach, or strengthen belief in Him; the greater the suffering of innocent believers, the greater will be their reward after life. Opposum mom needs to choose to believe and this will be steps to a reward. That means we must convince her to believe.

You do yourself no favours by using a post about the possum families well-being as a soapbox for your religion – and thus showing you have no love or understanding whatsoever.
I am inconsequent. I want to do her a favor and give her God's lovely promise for her suffering. The Seventh Day Adventists are reknowned for our commitment to health care for all. This is an extension of that mission.
There are 155 SDA hospitals and 276 clinics, dispensaries, etc. in the world. Many congregations have a Dorcas Society which provide food and supplies to the needy.

you actually make me physically ill, and that takes quite a lot - you are, sadly, a poor excuse for a human being. The good thing is that your insipid evil provides such a wonderful contrast to PMomma's good.

You said that to Coop and Heather so I think you must be having prejudice to believers. Opossum may be delightful. That matters not in the matters of the Almighty God. She has sinned as you have. Satan rebelled as you are rebelling.
Only those who have believed in Jesus, and have kept God's commandments, and kept the faith of Jesus and have retained faith in Jesus will be saved. When Jesus returns to Earth in the near future at the time of his second coming, everyone's eternal fate will already have been determined.

@mayyoursoulsleep: Hello death cultist. Did you know is rather rude, crass, and nasty to preach about a silly, hateful, god of "love", that smites all of those who disbelieve with complications on pre-existing conditions? Your comment is a perfect example of the kind of mess that comes out of a diseased mind.

We are not a cult. I'm unfamiliar with your term "death cult". LOL Please explain and "enlighten" me about the religion I've been in since my birth and served as minister of. We believe in communication with the dead but that's common in many religions.

Do you understand the term "corrolation is not causation"?
Do you understand the term "if the shoe fits?"
How would that explain the Christians with lupus? Is your imaginary friend testing their faith?

Adam and Eve sinned and doomed all mankind.

They weren't adding anything to the conversations, and were also being rude and insulting.

Coop and Heather were adding Christ. Your intolerance to that gift is clear and highlights your atheist stereotypes. It is to be expected.

So, you can go pray to your imaginary friend, but the rest of us will actually do something productive. Like give P-Momma what she needs in order to enjoy time with her family.

when she is dead what will you give her? Will you save her soul from punishment?

---You are a malevolent bag of shit of a human being. Take your passive-aggressive superstitious lies somewhere that it will be appreciated.
Typical. Begging your pardon, you hazard to call me a piece of sh** when it's your filthy mouth on the line? I thought atheists wanted to explore theism. I see no exploration here. All I see are atheists throwing money at a problem and calling the faithful derogotory names.

I can't wait until the day we are rid of the last of you ignorant fools. If any of the lunacy you spout were true, I would rather fry for eternity than comport with scum like you.

God is eternal. You will never be rid of him or his faithful. We will triumph. It has been thus for centuries. I have no doubt you will fry for eternity. Don't say I didn't warn you.

I just sit and shake my head because these people could not possibly be reading the same book I am. Where's the LOVE people. This is a person who is suffering. That's it. PERIOD
Perhaps it is the reader who is the problem. Shake your head and your eternal father will see your heresy and account you for it. He sees all. Where are we told to stand by while blasphemy and sin ruin our world? Would God be proud to call upon you for his war of righteouness? You are to be a righteous judge not an enabler. God promises victory to those who do his work. Who are you serving?
I wonder if you can show me where it says spew venom and judgement in the Bible. If you can maybe I'll give it up and find something else to believe in.

Gifts of judgement and discernment come to his righteous followers. If oppossummomma and sean burned a picture of your god and shat on it would you stay silent? This is what you are doing. Will you stand for god?

What mayyoursoulsleep really meant to say was "Nyah nyah, we're not gonna help you and neither is our god."
That is not what I said. God will ALWAYS HELP YOU. He does not foresake his followers. He may choose to put doubters through tests to see if they are fair weathered friends.

You know, I've often thought that the main reason that the religious right would love to kill stem-cell research is precisely because it could potentially, one day, cure aliments like Pmomma's and a myriad of others.

I would not support stem cell research because it kills a life. women may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life or health, severe congenital defects in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest, in these cases individuals are counseled to make their own decisions. Stem cell reasearch is worse than abortion because it alters God's creation.

Seriously, you, heather, coop and the like need to get a life. Your comments are not wanted here. We dont give a rats ass about your silly little prayers and your preaching. Unless you have some REAL SUPPORT to offer, you and your little gang of haters can find some one else to bother.

We will always love you.

Are you on crack? Meth? No, I'm being serious here, because the only other thing that explains your level of insanity is real mental illness.

The whole world is insane and atheists are exceptions? I don't think so. Fifteen million people believe in the same faith that I believe. Are we all insane?

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

lionel,

You reap what you sow. You behavior on top of Heather's and Coops is insulting and as the representatives of your religion they have worn out the welcome.

I think you see perfectly well why you are the recipient of abuse and criticism you just don't care, because you are on a mission from God.

Heather was initially greeted with great patience and tolerance, our views were explained clearly. She chose to try preaching to us, we asked her to leave politely and she refused.

I will note to that she was very thin skinned when it came to being criticized or asked to defend her faith.

I don't have a prejudice against believers I just think they are wrong. But heather was given plenty of rope, both her and coop and yourself have turned out to be inconsiderate and intolerant and if you were doing this in person you would have a restraining order against you - which is why I suspect you can do it because there are no consequences for your actions.

I absolutely love this next bit:

Gifts of judgement and discernment come to his righteous followers.

Translated: I can interpret the bible anyway i like, to justify my actions

If oppossummomma and sean burned a picture of your god and shat on it would you stay silent?

I thought there was only one god are you claiming there are others?

I missed the bit where I shat on god.

No what I am doing is criticizing your beliefs, which annoys you. You get angry and justify your actions by interpreting your religious text the way you want.

The Nazi's imagined the Jews conspired against them and this led to German Christians committing unspeakable acts.

So stop imagining what I am doing and getting yourself worked up to justify your anger.

Try defending your religion using rational argument or just admit it's based on faith and leave it at that.

And what ever happened to turning the other cheek?

But tell me where I have unfairly criticized God/your religion - what's that? oh any criticism is an insult I see.

Your faith is not wanted here, your preaching is not welcome here, your help is not needed, kindly leave.

Chris said...

They weren't adding anything to the conversations, and were also being rude and insulting.

Coop and Heather were adding Christ.


Exactly, they weren't adding anything.

God will ALWAYS HELP YOU. He does not foresake his followers.

O RLY? I would love to see some evidence of this. The whole of human history seems to point, you know, to an uncaring god. Unless, of course, god is a sadistic bastard, in which case you could technically view what he does as "helping" his followers.

"OH GOD, IT HURTS SO GOOD!"

Coop and Heather gave you not one disturbance. They wished what we all must wish for as servants of the Almighty Creator.

Oh, oh! I called it, I so called it. God wants his followers to act like douchebags.

when she is dead what will you give her? Will you save her soul from punishment?

A soul? What is this...soul? I demand evidence of its existance, please. Oh, and this god you keep going off about.

No? You have none? Well, then kindly please stop talking about them as if they have any meaning.

If oppossummomma and sean burned a picture of your god and shat on it would you stay silent? This is what you are doing. Will you stand for god?

Or maybe this goes to show that PM and the rest of us are not the kind of people you think we are. Criticism, questions and asking for clarifications (as opposed to blind belief) does not equate to shitting on a photographic representation of your deity of choice.

If that's what it would take to get your panties in a knot, though...give me your email and few minutes.

Adam and Eve sinned and doomed all mankind.

No. According to the christian myths, Adam and Eve sinned and god decided to doom mankind. He didn't have to. He's the creator of everything, including any of the arbitrary rules regarding sin that're usually told to justify why god "had" to doom us all to sin. The fact is, assuming the genesis story was accurate, god had (and has) plenty of chances to fix things...yet he doesn't.

I have no doubt you will fry for eternity. Don't say I didn't warn you.

We will always love you.

Ah, this again. I always get a kick out of it.

"You have different beliefs than me, and because of this, I know you will burn for eternity in a lake of fire! Your skin will melt from your bones, your eyes will pop and your meat will smell of a delicious roast pork. But...I love you"

You know what this, and the actions of your god, remind me of? An abusive husband.

"No no, baby, I didn't mean to hit you. I love you, you know that, right? But really, you made me do it, you gave me no choice. I told you earlier, I was saving those apples for later"

...**sigh** Honestly, whats the use with these people? They keep spewing the same vile hatred, all with a fake sense of love and a very thinly veiled sense of smug superiority. You point out that they're being completely inappropriate, not to mention completely unwanted, yet they still don't listen, thinking if they can act just a bit more of an ass we'll take them seriously.

Lionel, save yourself some time and effort. We don't want you here. You're an ass. We've heard everything you've said and will say before, you bring nothing new to the table. A lot of us here, myself included, were followers of your god at one point, only to find out what we were told (what you're telling us now) was a lie. All you're doing is further painting you and the cult (sorry, it has enough history and members...you go by "religion" now) you represent in a bad light. To sum up, there is nothing productive you can do here, so any continued preaching will only serve to push you further from your goals.

Jessi French said...

G'day atheists (and symapthetic theists)! Lionel is my pops. He means well, truly. Just a bit dodgy on explaining.

I'm at uni. Don't live with the oldies now. Excluding that he sends e-mail to us nippers with hope that we will rejoin the fold. You heard it directly; we sprogs left the SDA. The snag, for him, is that Jilly and I see how naff his argument is; Naff meaning ridiculous for you Yanks and Pommies. This blog aint the first he has materialized on.

Coop and Heather are in my family's church. Coop helps dad run lectures. They spend yonks of time congratulating themselves on their internet "out-reach".

@Pop\/ Why do you do this? You linked your particpation in this lady's blog with pride. What are you proud of? All you did is alienate some people who seem content and decent. This is why Jills and I left the church, pop. I haven't chucked God, pop. Nevertheless, when the atheists are the civil group, y' can't blame some for questioning the compassion of the religiou. Can't leave well enough alone, can you? You have not been attacked and I'm weary of the insinuation.

Possummom, I hope you feel better. Sorry about Coop, Heather, and Pop. I'm perplexed and mortified.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

$10 on the fruitcake coming back...what, no takers?

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

Jessie,

At least one thing your pops did turned out right.

reddhedd said...

Lionel,

Your assertion to great numbers of believers belies the fact that 2/3 of the world's population reject the christian god, and the vast majority of christians reject your personal variation....hard to see why you insist that it's so obviously your way or the highway.
IF there's a god, and IF he's as loving as some purport, I fail to see how he can fault anyone for wanting evidence.
Thomas asked for and received proof...and he was a contemporary of Jesus. Several hundred generations later, it is not wrong to ask for the same level of evidence. I personally don't want any MORE than that, and you haven't and can't provide anything close. It is no affront to any god to use the brain it supposedly created, the brain that differentiates us from mere animals.

As Jesus said in Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits."

Your lack of compassion for the sufferingshows us what you are, Lionel. And you are not good fruit.

HolyAtheist said...

Lionel, it is fundies like you that drove me to renounce christianity in the first place. I'm sure the same is true for many people who post here.

You, Heather, and Coop came here to preach to pmmomma and tell her she needed God to make her recover. I have a term for christians who use tactics like that- "vultures for christ".

You later go on to say that people here are "throwing money at a problem", unfortunately for you the money is being thrown toward something that will actually help. Unless you can proove that prayer works and God is real, your words aren't worth five cents to anyone here. No one cares about what your myth says because no one believes, if you want to change that the only way is logical proof. If you don't have that, get the fuck out because we don't need or want your preaching.

Honestly, your efforts aren't doing anything but hurting the image of your faith. The best thing most christians can do to improve their religion's image is to SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Nadine said...

Chris, I am so sorry that you're having a rough time. I hate that you're going through this. I know it's not much, but you've got lots of folks out here who care about you and worry about you.

Lionel-mayyoursoulsleep - Two words for you: holy crap - and I mean that literally.

fdqpink said...

@lionel
"I am appauled by the rude responses. "

Is that a freudian slip as you like most christians follow the teachings of paul.

"I don't like your atheist self worship and your treatment of my friends is low. I don't understand the reason I was the victim of harsh criticism."

Try thinking of it like this
A persons blogspace is their virtual home. You like coop and heather came uninvited into PM's home and started telling PM and herwelcome guests that she and her friends were wrong and you knew best.
Now ask yourself how you would feel if I turned up at your home and defecated on your dinner table. Quite rightly you would be appalled.
But this is how we see what you and your two friends have done here.
"Coop and Heather gave you not one disturbance. They wished what we all must wish for as servants of the Almighty Creator. It is the most loving action."
As You see it.
We all have different routes to our rejection of your beliefs but what we have in commen is a consistant search for the truth, a truth we could not find in your or anybody elses religion.I am faily certain tthat coop and heather felt they were doing what they think is a good thing yes they did not give one disturbance they created many.

"Some suffering is caused by the inheritance of mortality originating from Adam and Eve's disobedience to God, which includes vulnerability to illness and disease. God did not make opossummom sick; it was the sin of Adam and Eve. Also, Satan pervades the earth, causing pain and suffering. Many believe that suffering is God's design to test"

In general Illness and Disease are caused by the bodies inabillity to cope with one or more living things that have set up home in that body.I do notbelieve in god, sin or satan but even your holy book states satan stuck up for mankind time and time again.

"when she is dead what will you give her? Will you save her soul from punishment?"

When she is dead like the rest of us she will need nothing.
You like most christian sects believe what the roman catholics invented not what your "good " book say's if you bothered to find out about your own religion it is not hard to find out that "hell" is only an archaic spelling of the word hole the original hebrew "sheol" was translated as grave as many times as hell in the old testement.

"We will always love you."
so if I save up my pennies for the air fare you heather coop and myself are up for a foursome, cool!

I add many thanks to you daughter as Sean said at least you have done one decent thing in your life.


@Jessie
good luck at uni and all the best for the future

Perpetual Beginner said...

What always tickles me is that coop, Heather, and lionel worship a God who fails. One who fails over, and over, and over again. Who is so incompetant that he has to roast the majority of his own creation to try to correct his own incompetence. And then pisses and moans that those blasted children of his just won't learn.

If you're a teacher (or a principal of a school) and a couple of children fail and drop out - that may be the children. But if a majority - a large majority - fail the one test you're supposed to be preparing them for, and do it over and over again; that's not the children, that's the teaching method, or the teacher.

We're all God's children - somehow I have trouble believing he'd be willing to flunk all of us that easily. Apparently other people would rather believe that they're the special few.

karen said...

@jessi
Condolences on your parentage; congratulations on rising above it.

fsmismyhero said...

So now we've got Coop and Heather's minister defending them. Oh man we're going to have the whole SDA church on here pretty soon *rolls eyes*

The thing I don't get is haven't P-momma and most of atheists here committed the "unforgivable sin" by leaving the church and "rejecting christ"? So arn't these xtians wasting their time? I mean even if we decided that they were right (lol) we would still be going the hell. I am familiar with baptist and methodist theology so perhaps the SDA does not believe the same thing?

@Jessi French: I'm impressed!

P-momma: Glad to hear your spirits are up. Hope you continue to get/feel better!

Jess said...

So now we've got Coop and Heather's minister defending them. Oh man we're going to have the whole SDA church on here pretty soon *rolls eyes*

I'm shocked they were on your site on a Saturday. It's against the Sabbath. Do as I say, not as I do?
Coop has dragged pop into heaps of religious blogs. Atheists vex them in particular. Your like honey to their nature. My pops will share all the chats with his e-mail list. If you want to pull the pin, ignore him.

Mephitis said...

I hope PM will soon be on the mend.

As far Lionel etc: Gawd, save us from your followers.

Hannah King said...

oh dear! I stop reading the net for a few days, and this happens - I hope you feel better soon PMomma, truly.

Because I honestly can't afford to help in any other way, I wondered if you'd like a peice of art? Something to brighten your walls with :)

H

Berlzebub said...

@ Jessi:

I come from a fundamentalist family, so I know exactly what you mean. However, I do feel the need to respond to your "pop".

@ lionel:

In the first paragraph after your introduction, you actually note why you're the "victim of harsh criticism" (persecution complex, anyone?).

We did not treat your friends low. We reacted to their unfounded statements about P-Momma and her family. Even Christians on this blog asked Heather and Coop to drop it and/or leave. However, they didn't listen.

Then, you had the nerve to say this:
You said that to Coop and Heather so I think you must be having prejudice to believers.
No, we have prejudice to believers who think that they know P-Momma, or any of us, just by what they read online. Heather's "the atheists I know" statements gave us evidence that she doesn't actually know any atheists. (Of course, her comment about Christ and Europe was enough comic relief that I almost forgave her for her trolling.) Coop then calling P#1 a bastard brought out the protective side of the rest of us, and P#1's Mother. That you fail to understand any of this speaks to your prejudice against anyone who doesn't believe the same as you, and not just non-believers. Since other Christians on this blog came to P-Momma's defense, there is no way you should have come to your conclusions.

Your position is not only indefensible, but appalling. Nothing you say furthers the conversation in any way, and actually causes many of us irritation. You rationalize natural occurences to make it seem like P-Momma's at fault. You interpret daily events in ways that no sane human being would even consider. Then, you have the nerve to ask why you're being told to STFU?

Now, to your responses of my comments to you.

Do you understand the term "corrolation is not causation"?
Do you understand the term "if the shoe fits?"

Yes, apparently much better than you. Because a shoe is something real. The deity you worship is a fictious being that was created to brainwash gullible people like you.
How would that explain the Christians with lupus? Is your imaginary friend testing their faith?

Adam and Eve sinned and doomed all mankind.

That was more vague than a horoscope. So, you say that P-Momma was inflicted with lupus because of her "leaving the fold", but now you say that it's just a whim of a childish deity. You really need to work on your arguments more, lionel. Which is it? Does P-Momma have lupus because she's an atheist, or because your fictitious ancestors munched on an apple?
They weren't adding anything to the conversations, and were also being rude and insulting.

Coop and Heather were adding Christ. Your intolerance to that gift is clear and highlights your atheist stereotypes. It is to be expected.

How were they adding Christ? Heather thought Christ lived in Europe! She doesn't understand her religion well enough for a Bible study group, let alone to "preach the gospel" to anyone. Then, her husband had to come to her defense. Then, when it was explained to him why his wife wasn't welcome, he called P#1 a bastard. Of course, that's the brainwashed fundamentalist prototype, too. They don't know their deity, or the book he supposedly had a hand in, well enough to defend it to someone outside their faith.

So, you can go pray to your imaginary friend, but the rest of us will actually do something productive. Like give P-Momma what she needs in order to enjoy time with her family.

when she is dead what will you give her? Will you save her soul from punishment?

I think the better question would be, "When she is dead what will you have given her?"

So, I'm finally going to toot my own horn, and honk the horns of over 100 others. We've raised over $3,500 for her to be able to be with her children during the day, and it's still climbing. Several of us have called and talked to her, to let her know that she has friends and makes a positive difference in other's lives. What have you done, lionel. I don't recall any donations under that name, or anything that could be interpreted as "Coop". There was one Heather, but she opened her email to me with "I'M NOT THAT HEATHER". So, we've done infinitely more for P-Momma than your self-involved, self-righteous, persecution complexed ass has.

I don't have to save P-Momma's soul from punishment. First of all, I don't believe in souls (Hello! I'm an atheist!). Second, you're not only assuming that a deity would be the one you're worshipping, but that he would also consider your actions as "holy". Zeus/Cthulu/Crom would find everything your saying as a major insult.

I've spent nearly my entire life not only with fundamentalist neighbors, but also with fundamentalist family members. I know how intellectually bankrupt all of your arguments are, lionel. So, you ask us what we will do for her? I'll ask you what you will do for her? If you truly are trying to help P-Momma, there's a way that you can really do so. If all you're going to do is blame us for the actions of other members of your church, then get lost. I had enough of people more morally bankrupt than the philistines by the time I graduated high school.

Sorry for feeding the troll, P-Momma. I explained how my family was/is to you, last night. So, this gets under my skin.

Also, to you Jessi, you have my sympathies. The closest relation I had who was this irritating was an uncle. So, I can understand why you left the fold.

Calladus said...

Fifteen million people believe in the same faith that I believe. Are we all insane?

YES!

If they believe as you do, that people get sick because they are being punished for their sins - then yes - they are insane.

Berlzebub said...

Fifteen million people believe in the same faith that I believe. Are we all insane?

Like Calladus, and probably numerous others have pointed out, yes I do think you are. There's a psychiatric term called "delusion". Look it up.

Also, your 15e6 divided by 6.8e9 equals... *drum roll* 0.2%. I never thought I'd actually see this species in the wilds of the blogosphere. Consensus Minoritum, appeal to minority.

aimee said...

J, I did get a response, thanks for asking : )

Props to you Jessi for coming on here. Sounds like you may pick up the pieces a lot.

wineymomma said...

@Lionel

I still have no idea where in the Bible it says to treat anyone in the manner you have here.

The God that I read about and have a personal relationship with does not give me the gift of judgment and discernment over ANOTHER PERSON. Those are gifts that He gave me over MY life (they came with free will!)

I do hope God would call on me for the attitude of love and patience that I try to embody everyday of my life.

I can't imagine that the whole picture and defecation scenario would happen but I believe that I would handle it in a way that would make my God see that I love Him above all and that I want to be a minister to all people.

@Berlzebub

I will continue praying for but I will also continue to act because another belief I hold is that "faith without works is dead." Totally impossible to support with evidence but it is something that works for me.

Peace-WM

Berlzebub said...

@ WM:

My wife is Roman Catholic, and thinks the same way. I have no issues, other than a difference of opinion, with Christians who actually do good deeds. But the ones who insist on doing nothing, and then praise themselves for it, make me want to pull out what little hair I have left.

fdqpink said...

@ wineymomma
Unfortunately in my experience Christians such as yourself are very rare, but thankfully christans like the "holey" trinity are even rarer. For now atleast.