Thursday, October 18, 2007

John - Is he who he says he is?

So, as some of you know, in the Disneyland post, our trusty troll (John R) has been dishing it out faster than a waitress in a Denny's. His latest obsession seems to be the dress of women and how it effects their femininity. He even creeps right up to the line of suggesting that women should dress modestly so that men aren't tempted to break their "purity bonds". ("Oh no he didn't! - Yep. He did!") Saurian and I have been having fun, but I thought y'all might want to jump in.

Oh and John, special note to you, your slip is showing...and I'm not talking about a feminine undergarment. Check the thread.

28 comments:

AlisonM said...

I dunno. . .sometimes I'll wear a really modest outfit, long skirt, long sleeves,covered neck. . .throw on a few petticoats, thick stockings and practical shoes. . .

AND NO UNDIES!!!!

Wooo! It makes me feel like god is telling me to do something. . .that I can't talk about here.

Heh.

So, john, do the men in your church own (and wear) a robe, tunic, and sandals, just the way Jesus told them to? I mean, if you want to use the bible for your dress code, at least be consistent. Oh, and make sure it's all 100% of one fiber so nobody gets it into their heads that it's time to start throwing rocks.

Perpetual Beginner said...

Duh - now I feel dumb. I just posted a comment on that thread, so I'll reiterate here:

Notice the picture, John? Pants.

I wear pants almost exclusively. Know why? Because when I was twelve a "Good Christian" teacher stuck his hand up my skirt and into my underwear. And yes, it was a below the knee, not tight skirt - perfectly modest by your standards.

So that modesty prevents men from lusting improperly after women thing? Not so much. And pants provide much less access while making running away screaming (before or after breaking a kneecap) much easier.

DiVerL said...

Is he Pentecostal?

SWE said...

Maybe Impostorcostal? If I were going to pretend to be a religious fanatic John's is the one I'd adopt. As it is, I have to live with the undying shame that my husband can't be counted on to beat me when I wear pants.

john said...

I am not a Pentacostal. We are IBLP family.

I am going to bed. I might deal with these stupidities after I have prayed for guidance about what I should do to do GODs work.

I would not beat my wife for wearing pants since she never would wear them. She has self-respect.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

John,
Now it all makes perfect sense.
Bring it!
-Possummomma

Maggie Rosethorn said...

I think John needs a few lessons on clothing and history. Guess what, John...Underpants didn't even exist until a few hundred years ago. Men wore tights and tunics. Women wore long dresses and EXPOSED THEIR BREASTS. Unless you plan on dressing all women according to clothing believed to have been worn during the time Jesus supposedly lived, AND all MEN the same way, forget it.

AlisonM...I'm with you, babe. That's one of my favorite things to do, especially on a windy day. :)

Again John...I'm glad you wouldn't beat your wife because she would never think of wearing pants. I'm a lot harder to handle...not only do I wear pants, but the day my husband THINKS about raising his hand to me is the day he lives to regret.

Ami said...

John, you're not supposed to do God's work. He's a big boy. He'll never learn to do things on his own if you keep bailing him out.
Let go, and let God grow up.
Really.

Bonnie said...

Possummomma, I am a Christian and I have much more respect for your approach to issues (and frankly, agree more with you) than I do for John. John is the kind of person who makes every one of us reasonable Christians look bad to the rest of the world, and is a shameful, abhorrent example of Christianity. I have no doubt that God doesn't want us to judge others, or to take someone else to task for what we perceive to be their sin (and, by the way, I'm a woman wearing jeans right now, so suck it John) - get the log out of your own eye first, and all that. John, I have a feeling your log is larger than most, which is why you feel such a need to confront others rather than dealing with it.

AlisonM said...

Good one, Ami! I LOL'd, for real.

I live near a town that's a major Orthodox Jewish population. I always feel bad for those women with the wigs, hats, high neck long sleeve shirts, sweaters or jackets, long skirts and heavy tights when it's 90-plus degrees and so humid you can almost swim through the air. Religious clothing restrictions have nothing at all to do with practicality or modesty. They have everything to do with keeping people under control and/or identifying them as a religious group. If you go into this town, and you are clearly not dressed like them, they won't even make eye contact with you. If you were a woman lying bleeding in the street, they might call 911 for you, but they wouldn't give you any help that involved physical nearness, much less contact. You're clearly a goy because of your clothes. Bigotry endorsed and reinforced by dress code. (Both ways, if you think about it.)

BTW, I can guarantee that if you're going to be asking god for an answer, you'll get exactly the one you wanted in the first place, because you're talking to yourself.

DiVerL said...

Ahh, the cult of false humility. Wonderful.

DiVerL said...

Seriously, look at the pages on IBLP...http://members.aol.com/excognito/gothard1.html

Bill Gothard is a nut. His brother had extra martial affairs.

It's is a control based "religion".

SWE said...

I learn more about religion reading the stuff of trolls on atheist blogs than I every wanted to. This IBLP stuff looks freaky. And here I thought ~I~ had some control issues to work through. Good golly.

Where is that domestic abuse hotline when you need it?

Perpetual Beginner said...

Bonnie - I agree wholeheartedly. The Johns of the world make Christians at large look like nutcases.

Maggie Rosethorn - you're still nicer than me. The day my husband raises his hand to me (outside of karate class) is the day he won't live to regret. Fortunately, I married a man who doesn't need the warning.

SWE said...

Exactly, PB. No violence allowed, ever.

I brought that into the mix specifically to see if John thinks it's a good idea. And John, none of that "sure I'd outlaw waterboarding IF it's torture" nonsense. Either you think violence against your family is ok or you don't. Your stated religious beliefs thus far lead me to wonder.

Saurian200 said...

John R,

I am going to bed. I might deal with these stupidities after I have prayed for guidance about what I should do to do GODs work.

Good night.

Oh, by the way, that's not God your talking to every night. Go look in a mirror if you want to know who has really been talking to you.

If you were actually talking to your god, you'd probably be doing a whole lot better than you have been.

I would not beat my wife for wearing pants since she never would wear them. She has self-respect.

I can't help but notice that you didn't say you wouldn't beat your wife because spousal abuse is wrong or anything to that effect.

Are you saying if she did wear pants you would be okay with beating her for it!?!

Saurian200 said...

Bonnie,

John is the kind of person who makes every one of us reasonable Christians look bad to the rest of the world, and is a shameful, abhorrent example of Christianity.

Thank you. I've been trying to tell John exactly that for a while now but he's not listening. Maybe if he hears it from a fellow Christian instead of a dirty heathen like myself it will actually sink in.

Probably not, but I can still hope, right?

Saurian200 said...

P-Momma,

Saurian and I have been having fun, but I thought y'all might want to jump in.

Squeal!

I was mentioned on the main page!

*swoon*

Sally-Ann said...

Funny, I never thought what I wear had anything to do with self-respect. I mostly wear pants because it's fricken cold, and who wants to go out in the wind rain in a dress? Ick. So uncomfortable. Nevermind that chasing down the kids in a dress is a royal pain, and I don't feel very...eh...I suppose SECURE is the word I'm looking for. The one time in my life where I raised to dress modestly and be purposely unattractive (because all men are filthy animals who can't control their impulses, I guess? --And thus deserve to be the head of households WHY?) I was sexually molested by a close family member, and raped twice, once by my God-fearing boyfriend, and again by a family friend. Wearing pants seemed much safer after that. You can run and kick, and their harder to get off.

Nevermind that I don't feel much like dressing "ugly" anymore. If there is a god, he gave me a damn fine body, and I'm not about to hide his creation in an ugly flowerprint potato sack.

PS: Long-time lurker. I love this blog! It's very encouraging for us atheist parents. :)

Perpetual Beginner said...

Saurian2000 said: Thank you. I've been trying to tell John exactly that for a while now but he's not listening. Maybe if he hears it from a fellow Christian instead of a dirty heathen like myself it will actually sink in.

Saurian, we can only hope, but somehow I'm dubious as to whether John considers me a "real" Christian, despite his comments about there being only one Christianity.

Bonnie said...

Saurian, we can only hope, but somehow I'm dubious as to whether John considers me a "real" Christian, despite his comments about there being only one Christianity.

Ditto here - I know my mom doesn't.

Saurian200 said...

Perpetual Beginner & Bonne,

Yeah, I guess you're both right. Still, it was worth a try.

I'm starting to think his position isn't that there's only one Christianity but rather that there's only one real Christian. Namely him. And we dumb sinners should just be grateful to have him. ;)

Martin Wagner said...

Is this John dude for real? What a maroon! You sure do manage to attract the knuckle-draggers here, pm. FIrst that stalker-preacher dude, now this guy. WTF!

Atheist in a mini van. said...

I think he's real, Martin. Although, he seems to be pretty quiet for the moment.

SurvivorMama said...

I tried to tell John that his approach to "converting atheists" was anything BUT a representation of Christianity--with nice little quotes from the Bible. But, alas, he continues to act like the guy who used to scream hellfire and damnation in the quad at college...who embarrassed the hell out of me and the rest of the mainstream Christians I knew.

I find it interesting that so many Christians find it a "powerful witness" to scream insults at nonbelievers when Jesus, the one we're supposed to be exemplifying, only lost his temper when confronted with the hypocrisy of his own people.

He does seem to be providing great amusement for the P-Momma's readers. It's not all bad.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

Are you up late again, my friend?
Need to talk on the phone?

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

John is so strict about this clothing thing - I suspect he might find cross dressing rather alluring. Come on John admit it, you'd love to let the wife wear the pants in your family,just so you could...you know, experiemnt ;)

Kathryn said...

The more I read, the more I giggle.

I guess I should thank this John dude for the amusement.