Wednesday, October 24, 2007

Crazy, dueling kids!



You really need to click on the slideshow option to get the captions and the real "feel" for this grouping of pics. Basically, our air quality has hovered right above "suck" ever since the "California Inferno 2007" (*cue dramatic music*), the kids have had to play inside. Tonight, they officially hit cabin fever status. I heard some laughing and yelping...next thing I heard was the front door flying open and watching a blur of children go running past holding various and sundry, sword-like toys. I followed with the camera - as any good Jedi mother would. Please ignore the pantsless younger children. They'd already had baths.

Oh yeah...since I'm remarkably bored, tell me what you'd like to see and I'll take pics. Nothing dirty or illegal, please. I'll create a slideshow dedicated to your suggestions. Want to see the holy water? Want to see the Bible that's never been opened in the nursery? ;)

64 comments:

Molly said...

ZOMG! She's wearing pants!

ShadesOfGrey said...

Whoa - P#2, aka Qui Gon Jake, has some good moves! He's either been taking fencing lessons or has a high midiclorian count. Heh heh

Picture ideas...hmm, not sure. It's often the spontaneous shoots that are the best, as proven by your Sno-cones pics and these light saber pics.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

PMomma you are an evil woman allowing your children to run around playing with swords.

This is proof that your atheist ways are leading them away from the Lord and into violence. I will pray for you.

(sorry, missing john - sigh!)

Atheist in a mini van. said...

Hey Shades! His midiclorian counts ARE quite high. ;)
He's taken a couple of fencing lessons, but -for the most part- he's just studied the scenes in the Star Wars movies.

This is proof that your atheist ways are leading them away from the Lord and into violence. I will pray for you.

LOL

John said...

I enjoy your pictures. It's educational to see how those who willfully deny God dare to continue enjoying his gifts. My children can see how easily a family is misled by Satan and appreciate there own godly family.

I have to ask why you allow your eldest daughter to act in such unladylike ways? I believe you said she was twelve. That is the age to put away childhood things and act like a woman. That's in the Bible. We consider the Gospel to be life's instruction manual. How will such a girl be of use to husband and family if she's engaged in rough play with boys? What mother would approve of a young boy attempting to harm a young girl? Don't you realize the damage you are doing to the woman inside her? I think you should send her to boarding school. It would give God a chance to reach her without you interfearing.

John said...

I would also like to ask about the Japanese woman in the picture with your Grace. Who is she and what is her purpose? Are you to busy to read to your child? Do you feel it is appropriate to have an asian, who may be buddhist or hindu, taking such a role?

Paul said...

[silentsanta, nz]

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your sides, kids :)

Maggie Rosethorn said...

John, I've said it before and I'll say it again--you ARE an idiot. How can you take the innocent pictures of children playing and say they are trying to hurt each other? Maybe you never played with other children, but I did. Actually, I played tackle football (with another neighborhood girl, her brother, and my brother), climbed trees, flew kites, rode bikes, played dolls, and did all sorts of things. It's part of CHILDHOOD!!!!

P#1 appears to be growing up in to a sweet, loving, strong, independent young lady, who will marry or not as she chooses, but will always be able to stand on her own feet and be herself. Even if she does become a wife and mother, which is NOT a requirement for women, she is not a doormat.

As for the woman with P#4... (sarcasm)Oh, goodness, Pmomma...don't you know that you should NEVER expose your children to other cultures and races? What on EARTH were you thinking? They might learn about other people's beliefs and want to follow them, or at least respect them. How could you ever do that? (end)

Honestly, John. Let Pmomma and her husband raise their children in the wonderful way they are. Their children will be wonderful contributing members of society, no matter what their sex.

Saurian200 said...

John,

I enjoy your pictures. It's educational to see how those who willfully deny God dare to continue enjoying his gifts. My children can see how easily a family is misled by Satan and appreciate there own godly family.

So, wait, you're teaching your kids to be stalkers like you. And you have the nerve to complain about how Possummomma raises her kids. Family night at your place must be a real hoot.

"Now, kids, look at these other kids. They're disgusting heathens. You shouldn't have anyhing to do with people like them. They're sinners and bad people. If you ever talk to them, it should just be to insult their families, brag about yourselves, and throw around Bible quotes as if anyone cares. And don't you dare support you're beliefs. There's no supporting beliefs in this household."

Seriously, you need to see a therapist. You have serious issues.

I have to ask why you allow your eldest daughter to act in such unladylike ways? I believe you said she was twelve. That is the age to put away childhood things and act like a woman. That's in the Bible. We consider the Gospel to be life's instruction manual.

I'll say it again. We know what you're religion says. WE DON'T CARE. If id didn't convince us the frst twenty times, what do you think you'll accomplish with the next twenty.

At this point even other Christians have told you what a bad job you're doing preaching the faith. If both the atheists and the Christians agree that the only thing you're accomplishing is making your own position look bad then why are you still using the same tactics.

Remember, they say that madness is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result, or something to that effect. You're a living example of that.

How will such a girl be of use to husband and family if she's engaged in rough play with boys?

Here's a great example of a non-sequitur.

There is no connection between P#1 playing with her brother at the age of twelve and her being a bad wife later.

Again, we know you believe there is a connection but that doesn't make it true.

What mother would approve of a young boy attempting to harm a young girl?

Wow! Nobody could possibly be this dense. It's called "play". They aren't acttualy hurting each other. Lightsabers don't exist in real life.

Of course, you might be thinking that they are trying to club each other. That doesn't speak much better of you. I have to assume that you're just making things up now so you can yell at people you don't like. Though, that's hardly the action of an emotionally mature person.

Don't you realize the damage you are doing to the woman inside her?

Yeah, none. The sky ain't really falling Chicken Little. It's just in your head.

I think you should send her to boarding school. It would give God a chance to reach her without you interfearing.

Talk about projection. Just because you're beliefs are so weak that they would evaporate without constant reinforcement doesn't mean that everyone else has the same problem.

Furthermore, I think that is the real reson you're hear. You aren't trying to convince us of anything. You are trying to convince yourself that your beliefs are accurate so you keep trying to make it seem as if P-Momma and her family fit your beliefs about how non-believers are supposed to live they're lives.

But, they don't match your delusions. P-Momma, is happy with her life. Her children are happy and healthy and have futures filled with promises. Deep down, you know this. That's why you keep coming back.You're going to keep trying, not untill you convince us, you're not even trying to do that, but untill you convince yourself. You'll stay untill that little bit of doubt goes away.

Saurian200 said...

John,

I would also like to ask about the Japanese woman in the picture with your Grace. Who is she and what is her purpose? Are you to busy to read to your child? Are you to busy to read to your child?

So, you see one person that you don't know in someone elses's family photos and you instantly jump to the conclusion that P-Momma must be neglectful. I'd love to know how you mad that jump.

Do you feel it is appropriate to have an asian, who may be buddhist or hindu, taking such a role?

Again with the projection thing. How can your beliefs be so weak that you can't even imagine tolerating a person of another religion even being NEAR you or your kids.

Saurian200 said...

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D.,

Well, look at what you've done now. He's back, so I hope you're happy.

Now go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

Holy crap!! How did I miss John's post here? Of course, Saurian and Maggie have handed him his ass...and I could just say "ditto". But...I'm feeling frisky today.


I enjoy your pictures. It's educational to see how those who willfully deny God dare to continue enjoying his gifts. My children can see how easily a family is misled by Satan and appreciate there own godly family.

Why don't you show us some pictures of your family, John? Put up or shut up! If your family is the shit, then prove it. Let's see just how wonderful and godly your family is. It amuses me that you still haven't picked up on the fact that atheists don't believe in Satan, either.

I have to ask why you allow your eldest daughter to act in such unladylike ways?
You have a very narrow definition of the term "lady". There are times for dresses and demure behavior...and, then there are times to cut-up and act LIKE A CHILD! Not a "female child" or a "male child". Just "A CHILD"! She's not acting "unladylike" - she's acting like herself and that's all I really care about.

I believe you said she was twelve. That is the age to put away childhood things and act like a woman. That's in the Bible. We consider the Gospel to be life's instruction manual.
I realize that your Bible has warped your sense of propriety. But, for fuck's sake, man: twelve isn't eighteen. And, if you truly consider the Bible to be your instruction manual, then I'm surprised your kids are still alive. How did they avoid all of the stoning and sacrifices?

How will such a girl be of use to husband and family if she's engaged in rough play with boys?
For starters, if any man wanted to "use" my daughter, I'd kick his ass. Daughters are not to be "used". As for engaging in "rough play" - not every man is threatened by a woman who can hold her own.

What mother would approve of a young boy attempting to harm a young girl?
I realize the line between reality and fantasy is a difficult concept for you, but you do realize that the lightsabers are toys, right?

I think you should send her to boarding school. It would give God a chance to reach her without you interfearing.

...and, I think you should fuck off. But, as the philosopher Jagger once said, "You can't always get what you want."


I would also like to ask about the Japanese woman in the picture with your Grace.
She's Chinese, asshat.
Who is she and what is her purpose?
Who are you? The census taker? Sharon (Ping Yei) is our new nanny.
Are you to busy to read to your child?
Yep. Too busy taking pictures and supervising the outdoor activities. Good thing I recognize that I can't be twenty places at once and had the wisdom to ask for help, huh?
Do you feel it is appropriate to have an asian, who may be buddhist or hindu, taking such a role?

Well, look who turns out to be a racist! I think it's ENTIRELY appropriate to have people of other races and faiths come into our home. Everyone, even you, though I can't figure out quite how, has something to give to the world.
John, you need help. How do you live life with such paralyzing fear? You fear; education, strong women, sex, other races, etc.,.
How do you function?

Atheist in a mini van. said...

Sean FCD:

(sorry, missing john - sigh!)

I hope this is just a summer thing. ;)

Saurian:
Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D.,

Well, look at what you've done now. He's back, so I hope you're happy.

Now go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

I was going to go with "drop and give me twenty!", but the corner works, too.

Terra said...

Someone else has said it before, but I think John is not what he seems to be. I have a hard time believing anyone could be that retarded. And I'm not using retarded in the flippant, slang sense. I do mean retarded. Socially, ethically, morally, culturally retarded.

Great pics, P-momma. I especially liked the "almost looks real" one!

Atheist in a mini van. said...

I would love to believe that John is just some troll in disguise. It would allow me to have more hope for the world. That's why I'm hoping he posts some pics of his family, since they're so great! If he ignores the request or weasles out of it by some means, I'm going to be less inclined to believe he is who he says he is.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

Family night at your place must be a real hoot.

Homer Simpson: Flanders, give me your first aid kit.
Ned Flanders: Well, I was hoping to save it for Rod and Todd to bandage their brain-eating boo-boos.
Homer Simpson: Just rub a bible on them.
Ned Flanders: Will that work to fend off zombies?
Homer Simpson: Who am I, Doctor Science?
Ned Flanders: Okely-dokely, here's the first aid.
Rod Flanders: Daddy, if the zombies are dead, why aren't they in Heaven?
Todd Flanders: I hope my brain feeds a hungry zombie.

Perpetual Beginner said...

I just knew if I waited a couple of days, John would show up on this thread. There's really only one thing I wanted to cover though.

How will such a girl be of use to husband and family if she's engaged in rough play with boys?

Huh? Sorry, John, but what on earth are you talking about? A youth spent in rough-and-tumble play (two older brothers) was the best possible foundation for life as a mother of two active boys.

Trust n Truth said...

I am 90% sure John is a troll looking to get a rise out everyone here. My sanity and a tiny thread of remaining faith in humanity cannot believe anyone (even a Christian) can be so judgemental, closed-minded, and idiotic.

Lovely pictures, PM! It's always nice to see such happy and active kids!

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

Sorry guy's I was practicing Daemon summoning as outlined in Chapter 12 of the Evil Atheists Grimoire and must have summoned a retard by mistake.

John, me and a couple of Satanic buddies are going to start reading the bible backwards while focusing our thoughts on you. So start praying and prepare for the spiritual assault.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

In all seriousness though, John's mental state kinda has me worried about the health and well being of his family.

John said...

I am going to try this again. I have prayed on this and the lord told me that I need to be patient with all of you to get you to see the things that I see in the lord and his plan for all of us. It's the lords desire that things be in a place. You accuse me of not giving examples from my own family and you are right I should give examples to help you see. I will ignore all of your foul mouths and ask to discuss this in nice language.

Let's see just how wonderful and godly your family is.
Me and the wife decided that we would accept all of the children HE decided to bestow upon us. This purpose shapes our life. We gain strength through knowing that we are living what God asks. I have many children but I don't want to say how many just now. We are large by all standards. In this house we serve the Lord first.

It amuses me that you still haven't picked up on the fact that atheists don't believe in Satan, either.
Don't you see that it doesn't matter what you believe in some things are true if you believe or not. Satan is always trying to get our hearts. If something is not of god it is of satan. Atheism is not of god so it has to be of satan. Because you ignore God and Satan doesn't mean they don't pull us in direction of life.

You have a very narrow definition of the term "lady".
A lady is her virtue. A lady is a female who lives a virtuous life for Christ in keeping with the Lords commandments. Young ladies who follow a virtuous lord will listen to the men who were put on this earth to guide them in the role of helpmeet, father, or ministry. The woman of the world fills her life with lofty pursuits that can only bring conflict to the home in the council of the men in her life. The men protect the young lady from the dangers of a promiscuous world and empty pursuits which only God can fill. fill. Our homes should
be the model of the beauty, rest and joy which radiates from our
Saviour!!!! A young lady of virtue should turn her heart to her children and her husband so that in them she may fulfill Gods purpose. All actions of a young lady must aim toward acceptance of Gods covenant and fulfillment of Gods plan for women. A rich home is what we desire. Hearts turned to one another. Family
members being the best of friends and peace, love and joy flourishing
in the face of the world outside its doors. Children being raised in
the fear and the admonition of our glorious Father. You can't do that
on the run.
Proverbs 31:27a proclaims "She watches over the affairs of her
household..." A young lady will do what prepares her to live that admonition.
My concern for your daughter comes from the observations that you are not living a virtuous life for God. You are living for yourself. You are enticing your daughters with promises of worldly things and education that doesn't serve in a family life. What freedom there is in knowing who you are in Christ as a
wife and mother and not feeling pressured by the world to be anything else but just that. My wife and daughters are virtuous and completely willing to bend to suit God. That is an admirable trait in females.
There are times for dresses and demure behavior...and, then there are times to cut-up and act LIKE A CHILD! Not a "female child" or a "male child". Just "A CHILD"! She's not acting "unladylike" - she's acting like herself and that's all I really care about.

Is it really all you care about that she acts like herself? What if that self was a murderess or adultress? You have desires as we do but you are to pretentious to admit it. Where you are failing is in training your children to be perfectly submissive to God. It does not matter what we desire, it matters what god thinks. Preparing a woman for high education and a career is against Gods plan and I told you how things that are against God are for Satan.
But, for fuck's sake, man: twelve isn't eighteen.
No it isn't eighteen so why are you giving her choices as if she were. Children should be submissive to God first and their parents second. Until they are ready to marry and live Gods plan, they are our charge. Teach them in the needs and purposes of God.

Daughters are not to be "used". As for engaging in "rough play" - not every man is threatened by a woman who can hold her own.
In Genesis 3, Eve is told: "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you". If a man sees that a young lady is not prepared to give her heart soley to God under his righteous leadership then godly men won't be interested in your daughter. Feminism deprives women of righteous leadership. Men are called to take responsibility, lead, and provide for their wives. This is the duty of men – just as it's the duty of women to be helpmeets. Thinking the husband should provide and protect is not some off-the-rocker expectation. Why does it happen, then, that some men declare they just aren't up to this task anymore?
How can a man be a helpmeet if the woman believes she should lead with the husband? It would be like watching two bulls pull in opposite directions. That makes no one happy. By rejecting masculine authority, women also gave up on protection of men.Ultimately, it all boils down to whether you believe in God's word or not. Women were created to be helpmeets and obey their husbands without any conditions. God didn't say, "Obey your husband if he's smarter than you" or "obey your husband if that's what works for you at the moment". By allowing your daughters to play rough with your sons you are encouraging strife.

Maggie said it all Maybe you never played with other children, but I did. Actually, I played tackle football (with another neighborhood girl, her brother, and my brother), climbed trees, flew kites, rode bikes, played dolls, and did all sorts of things. It's part of CHILDHOOD!!!!
Her life experience set her up to challenge as we see here. She will never feel peace until she accepts Gods role for her as a helpmeet instead of a playmate.

Even if she does become a wife and mother, which is NOT a requirement for women, she is not a doormat.
Godly women are not doormats. They are beautiful decorations in the home.

Their children will be wonderful contributing members of society, no matter what their sex.
They will be sexless drones.

TBC

John said...

You aren't trying to convince us of anything. You are trying to convince yourself that your beliefs are accurate so you keep trying to make it seem as if P-Momma and her family fit your beliefs about how non-believers are supposed to live they're lives.

I serve my god. That is my purpose. When we have a job we have to correct the things that are problems. This feminist attitude for young women is a problem. It robs women and men of their purpose. 'Obedience' is not a curse. Neither is 'submission' or 'authority'. These are gifts from God, part of His beautiful plan for both sexes. Why forsake it in the name of egalitarianism? Why not dare to trust Him and live according to His instruction?

So, you see one person that you don't know in someone elses's family photos and you instantly jump to the conclusion that P-Momma must be neglectful. I'd love to know how you mad that jump.

Neglect comes in many forms and neglecting spiritual growth is the worst form of neglect.

Again with the projection thing. How can your beliefs be so weak that you can't even imagine tolerating a person of another religion even being NEAR you or your kids.

My kids are gods kids. If you are a carpenter why would you ask a mason to teach your child? Asians are not gods people because of their belief in hindi and buddha. Asians worship a false god.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...
In all seriousness though, John's mental state kinda has me worried about the health and well being of his family.

My health is fine. Unlike pmommas and I think the lord has everything to do with that. My beloved wife is healthy and expecting another blessing. I read that possummomma had a hysterectomy which robs women of their gifts. Another insult to the lord. She turned her nose at more blessings. Four is more than the unfortunate number that America claims in birth rate but its nothing like the love of accepting all blessings. I will bet that pmomma took the pill and that it harmed her uterus. She most likely got lupus from a hormone imbalance because she disrupted gods plans for her.

Bwian said...

Well, it's true what they say about enough rope, I guess. Thank you for sharing, john. I'm sure you've changed some minds here, if not in exactly the way you intended...

"If a man sees that a young lady is not prepared to give her heart soley to God under his righteous leadership then godly men won't be interested in your daughter."

Can I get an amen?

Maggie Rosethorn said...

John...I had to go out, talk to other people, and have some coffee after reading your vile comment. If I was still a christian, your comment would have infuriated me as much as it did, and as an agnostic, your comments would NEVER lead me back to god.

Are you an idiot? Or just an obnoxious bastard? Do you REALLY think any woman has a hysterectomy just because she doesn't want more children? You are SICK!!!!!!!

Suicide is a sin, right? So, if a woman gets pregnant, even knowing that a pregnancy would likely kill her or the fetus, isn't that a sin? Or, if she doesn't want to get pregnant and die, if her husband makes her pregnant again, isn't he a murderer if she dies?

Or is a woman just a uterus? Do you love your wife enough to refuse to have more children if you were told a pregnancy would kill her? Or is she just a uterus, you and the living children can easily replace a uterus, you know.

Just thinking about your statements infuriates me still. I just can say thank goodness that I never met you or heard you say that in person, or I would be in jail for assault and battery.

Perpetual Beginner said...

John, if you truly think that God intends for us to have as many children as he sends us, no matter what, then my only sane conclusion would be that God hates me. Pregnancy has nasty effects on my body - to wit, I would be massively obese, blind, have high blood pressure, sky high cholesterol, and consequently, a quite high chance of having had a stroke or heart attack by now. Plus a good chance of diabetes on the side.

As it happens, I believe God helped my husband and I to our firm conviction (before I had a medical diagnosis), that two children was all we wanted, thus sparing me and helping make sure my sons had a mother to grow up with.

My kids are gods kids. If you are a carpenter why would you ask a mason to teach your child? Asians are not gods people because of their belief in hindi and buddha. Asians worship a false god.

Lousy analogy. Also lousy idea, but analogy first. A carpenter can be a much better carpenter if he understands masonry, how it works and behaves - particularly if he's going to be doing anything like house-building that combines the two.

Though in that sense your analogy isn't horrible, even though it makes the opposite of the point you were trying to make. What people believe tends to reflect their concerns and mode of thinking. It is very hard to communicate with someone without insulting them unless you understand those things. It is even harder to persuade someone of your good intentions and the correctness of your worldview while insulting them. If you want a live example, look at the response of the people on this blog. You're not convincing them of your rectitude, you're convincing them that you're a lunatic who wants them to suffer, and that Christians must be either crazy, sadists, or heavily deluded. Good luck with that kind of evangelism, pardon me if I go a different route.

trust & truth said...

Perpetual Beginner is right. People like John (though not quite as over-the-top egotistical) are the reason I LEFT Christianity.

I don't WANT my daughter to be submissive to a man. She will NOT be a walking uterus, or a "decoration" (what the ever-loving HELL?!). She will grow up to be the woman she WANTS to be, not the kind of woman some overbearing, closed-minded, control-freak "man" wants her to be.

And though I swear I will support my children every step of the way, no matter what their choices be when they are grown...I will be severely disappointed if my son ever behaves like dear John here.

*Still hoping he's a troll...

Erin said...

>>Me and the wife decided that we would accept all of the children HE decided to bestow upon us.<<

Wait, you let your wife take part in decision making? Did her weak, womanly constitution allow her to handle such a task?

Gramomster said...

trust n truth...

Sadly, there are worse even than John out there. Have you checked out the Westboro Baptist site? These are the lovely folks who picket the funerals of soldiers with "God Hates Fags" signs and such. Truly a scary, scary bunch.

trust n truth said...

Gramomster : Yeah, I've heard of them. It's really sickening that there are people out there who hate so vehemently. Sadly, my Granny used to sing praises to Fred Phelps and thought we should all follow his example. I hope she's wised up in her old age and realized how un-Christian he and his whole family really are.

Saurian200 said...

John,

am going to try this again. I have prayed on this and the lord told me that I need to be patient with all of you to get you to see the things that I see in the lord and his plan for all of us. It's the lords desire that things be in a place.

Iknow this wasn't directed at me but I'll respond anyway. Here we go.

Remamber what I said about madness before, this is what I was talking about. If an argument is unconvincing then you can be as patient as you want, it won't make a difference. If it's unconvincing the first time it's just going to keep being unconvincing.

I will ignore all of your foul mouths and ask to discuss this in nice language.

Oh grow up! Bad language never hurt anyone. Instead of complaing about how we are saying things, how about actually dealing with WHAT we are saying. You'll be more successful.

Since it was adressed to them, I'll leave the rest in the capable hands of Possummomma, and Maggie. Give him hell, you two. Just don't use any naughty language, baby can't handle that.

I serve my god. That is my purpose. When we have a job we have to correct the things that are problems.

I'm not playing games here. I'm not using any tricks or anything like that. I am honestly asking you these questions and I would like an honest answer to them.

1. What is your purpose HERE, on this forum? What are you trying to accomplish? I think I know but still I would like to hear it from you in clear, unambiguous language. What do you want to accomplish?

2. How do you intend to accomplish that goal? Your tactics have been completely unsuccessful so far, so why haven't you tryed something else? Have you considered another stratagy? If yes, why aren't you using it? If no, why not?

3. Honestly, yes or no, do you think you are doing a good job? Why?

I await your answers.

This feminist attitude for young women is a problem. It robs women and men of their purpose. 'Obedience' is not a curse. Neither is 'submission' or 'authority'. These are gifts from God, part of His beautiful plan for both sexes. Why forsake it in the name of egalitarianism? Why not dare to trust Him and live according to His instruction?

Exactly, why? Why believe any of that? Because you say so? Because the book you happen to follow says so? Why?

Why don't you ever try and answer that? Do you even have an answer?

Neglect comes in many forms and neglecting spiritual growth is the worst form of neglect.

That doesn't in any concievable way answer my question. You'd make a good boxer considering how much you dodge things.

My kids are gods kids.

So there not yours! Does God know you've got his kids? You might want to give them back. I've read the bible. Your god's got a temper problem.

If you are a carpenter why would you ask a mason to teach your child?

As Perpetual Baginner has already pointed out, knowing some masonry could make you a better carpenter, so, yes, I would have no problem letting a mason teach my son some masonry.

Even if my son wasn't trying to become a carpenter or a mason, such skills could come in useful some day.

Asians are not gods people because of their belief in hindi and buddha. Asians worship a false god.

You do know that there are asian Christians, right. Especially here in America, there are in fact many. One's religion isn't determined by one's race.

You say they worship a false god, (I'll just ignore your hilarious lack of knowledge about both Buddhism and Hinduism.) but there are many religions that say the same thing about you. They say tht you worship a false god and I shouldn't listen to them. They even have old books that say the same thing just like you. So, why should I believe you instead of them?

Man, how many times have I asked this now? Has anyone been keeping a count? Anyone?

John said...

Wait, you let your wife take part in decision making? Did her weak, womanly constitution allow her to handle such a task?
Yes. It is she who will decide when the Lord says her body is finished with the purpose (to give birth). Women who choose to allow God to bless them with as many children as possible are strong in spirit not weak.

Sadly, there are worse even than John out there. Have you checked out the Westboro Baptist site? These are the lovely folks who picket the funerals of soldiers with "God Hates Fags" signs and such. Truly a scary, scary bunch.

Fred Phelps is a wicked man. He is not wrong regarding Gods rejection of gays. He is wrong because he is not humble before God, he is not confidant in the judgement of God. His message is not wrong but the delivery is. This country has enabled people to hold lower standards and its become ungodly.

1. What is your purpose HERE, on this forum? What are you trying to accomplish? I think I know but still I would like to hear it from you in clear, unambiguous language. What do you want to accomplish?
I have purposed to bring the light of god to the dark places in the soul. Atheism is a dark place. I will purpose to use this mothers behavior to show her how she is blocking the light that could come to her family. Christians are bound to serve God in this way. Would we be good persons if we allowed you all to perish in the fires of hell because no one had witnessed to you. Showing you the err of ways is a blessing to you. I want you to know the love of god but maybe I am not showing that to you. Since you mock all of my words I have to pray to know how to show you the light of Gods purpose, plan, and promise.


2. How do you intend to accomplish that goal? Your tactics have been completely unsuccessful so far, so why haven't you tryed something else? Have you considered another stratagy? If yes, why aren't you using it? If no, why not?

It's Gods plan not mine. I am allowing God to tell me how to proceed.

3. Honestly, yes or no, do you think you are doing a good job? Why?

I don't think I am because you are so unreceptive to the message. I know what I am telling you is pure light. I am praying for guidance on what words I can say to help you see the light and turn from darkness. Pmomma is sarcastic and I tried meeting sarcasm with sarcasm. All parents worry about their children and i hoped i could point out things to make her worry about the eternal salvation that she's keeping from her children. I don't know how you guys can ignore my words of caution.

I have answered your questions now.

Nomoxian said...

i'd say "burn the un-opened bible" but there's probably enough fire in your neck of the woods.

hmm, halloween is coming up. what about pictures of that? are you able to decorate the house? (much better then dolling it up for x-mas)

Perpetual Beginner said...

John - I believe your sincerity, but truly you have approached this in entirely the wrong way. You are not the machine gun of truth and your mission is not to gun down all opposition until you are standing alone in the bloody remains as the sole "victor", yet this is how you have been treating the people in this forum. As if a) they were opponents to be vanquished, or b) they were your children to be disciplined. They are neither. They are God's beloved children every bit as much as you are. You are every bit a failable a human being as they are. People cannot be argued or coerced into believing in God. They must see and convince themselves for it to stick. Be the light for them to see by, not the stick to beat them with.

Bwian said...

Honestly, it's a good thing I don't believe in God or Satan. If I did, testimony like John's would send me straight into the Satan camp. He says it's God's plan, not his; I think he needs to check the headers on those emails for forgery.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

John said

My health is fine. Unlike pmommas and I think the lord has everything to do with that. My beloved wife is healthy and expecting another blessing.

Interesting that you focus foremost on yourself, then mention the baby factory.

I was actually directing my comment at the rest of your family.

Your vile thoughts and your willingness to express them openly has me concerned that you might be damaging the young lives in your care.

I hope to goodness that you are just an internet coward that gets off on being a keyboard warrior for the Lord.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

John also displays an unhealthy intrest in the activities and dress of Pmomma's kids - is anyone else concerned?

Paul said...

[Silentsanta, NZ]

John said:
I serve my god. That is my purpose. When we have a job we have to correct the things that are problems. This feminist attitude for young women is a problem. It robs women and men of their purpose. 'Obedience' is not a curse. Neither is 'submission' or 'authority'. These are gifts from God, part of His beautiful plan for both sexes.

John - I'm going to tackle this point you made here, and I will attempt to do so in all politeness and without sarcasm, seeing as how that is how you prefer to express yourself.

Above, you proclaim the benefits of "Obedience" and "Submission".
1. Surely you can agree that these things can only sometimes be virtues. A positive example would be, say, your children obeying you. A negative example might be your children obeying a sexual deviant who instructed them to get into his car. Therefore obedience and submission can only be virtues when they are towards a worthy agent.

2. Let us take your example of the false gods 'hindi' and 'buddha'. Do you imagine that an Indian child, choosing to be obedient to instructions from the hindu temple instead of a christian church is displaying virtuous obedience?
but this obedience to false gods cannot be good!
Therefore, I propose that it is important that we each examine WHO is telling us to do something or believe something.

We have established:
1. Obedience can be misplaced and can be harmful.
2. We need to examine who or what we choose to be obedient to, to avoid misplacing obedience.

I hope that you would agree with me on the above two points.
Now imagine, for a minute, that a non-christian like me has never come across any remotely convincing evidence for the existence of God, LET ALONE the specific God as described in christianity or judaism. Can you see why someone would be reluctant to display any obedience to someone they've never met?

I don't know how long you've been reading her blog, but you've rightly concluded that pMomma is fond of sarcasm. There's something else that she's fond of, which is people backing up their arguments with substantial and convincing evidence for their claims. I'm afraid bible verses don't actually count, because none of us here accept the authenticity of the work. Please note that their are hundreds of other 'holy' texts that we are equally unimpressed with, ranging from the Koran, through to the Bhagavad Gita.

Aside from the Bible, can you think of any other evidence for the existence of your God?

John said...

John also displays an unhealthy intrest in the activities and dress of Pmomma's kids - is anyone else concerned?

I am interested in her family for the reasons I said but I would not harm them as that would be against a commandment of God. I am a family man. I know what the line is, Seantheblogonaut. I will answer all other questions tonight. I hope that Pmomma will read what I have written because I really think I am making headway.

trust n truth said...

So...God is the one behind all of these arguements of yours, John? Wow. That's pretty sad.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

Me and the wife decided that we would accept all of the children HE decided to bestow upon us.
Why is it that people like you say that you'll accept "all of the children" that God bestows upon you, but then you set up arbitrary rules about which children you'll accept. How many of your kids are adopted? My point is: how do you know that the kid in the Save The Children commercials wasn't put before your eyes by God? How do you know that God only wants you to accept the children made in your bedroom? It's a good thing that, for your religion, Joseph was less picky about the kids he accepted, huh?
This purpose shapes our life. We gain strength through knowing that we are living what God asks.
Sorry, but I have to call bullshit. You gain strength from doing exactly what you want to do and you've twisted a religion to suit how you want to live. God asks some pretty terrible things of parents - why are you only obeying part of his Parenting 101 class?

Don't you see that it doesn't matter what you believe in some things are true if you believe or not. Satan is always trying to get our hearts. If something is not of god it is of satan. Atheism is not of god so it has to be of satan. Because you ignore God and Satan doesn't mean they don't pull us in direction of life.
Don't you see that some things are fictional no matter how much you want to believe in them? I don't believe in Satan, John. How many times do you need to hear that before it sinks in? And, I can't ignore God because I don't believe he/she/it exists in the first place. Do you believe in my fuzzy-naveled, blue heffalump? Don't you know that all good things come from the heffalump? There's even an entire genre of literature about my heffalump. There's a cast of characters. There are songs of praise and worship to the heffalump. Why don't you believe in the laws laid down by my heffalump?
"They're black. They're brown. They're up. They're down. They're in, they're out, they're all about. They're far, they're near, they're gone, they're here. BEWARE. BEWARE. Be a very wary bear."
I don't mean to make fun of you, but believing in your God is much like believing in the Heffalumps of Winnie the Pooh.

A lady is a female who lives a virtuous life for Christ in keeping with the Lords commandments.
What are the commadments? I'd like to read them. Where does the Bible tell a woman what is virtuous?

Young ladies who follow a virtuous lord will listen to the men who were put on this earth to guide them in the role of helpmeet, father, or ministry.
It's interesting that you do not say they should listen to their mothers/sisters/friends. Who do the boys have to listen to? Is this a quid pro quo thing? Do boys have to consult their mothers before major decisions?

The woman of the world fills her life with lofty pursuits that can only bring conflict to the home in the council of the men in her life.
So, basically...an educated woman is a challenge to your authority and we just can't have that now, can we? Listen up, asshole. Educated women bring; knowledge, confidence, and the expanse of humanity with them into a home. If the guy in the relationship can't appreciate THOSE gifts, then he...well, he's probably you.

The men protect the young lady from the dangers of a promiscuous world and empty pursuits which only God can fill. fill. Our homes should be the model of the beauty, rest and joy which radiates from our Saviour!!!!
He's not a very good Saviour, then, John. If he was, you'd be able to lighten up and allow your daughters to live in the world because of your savior's protections. Kind of a crappy deal, if you ask me; you give him your life and he can't even secure your daughter's safety?

young lady of virtue should turn her heart to her children and her husband so that in them she may fulfill Gods purpose.
Why not turn their hearts to their children and husbands because they genuinely want to and love them? Why not fulfill a mutual goal, between parents, to have scathingly brilliant and compassionate children?

Family members being the best of friends and peace, love and joy flourishing
in the face of the world outside its doors.

This I agree with. Note, though, that it does not require a God to make it happen.

My concern for your daughter comes from the observations that you are not living a virtuous life for God.
?!?!?!

My wife and daughters are virtuous and completely willing to bend to suit God. That is an admirable trait in females.
I feel sorry for your wife and female children. And, I'm not saying that with any tone of sarcasm. I'm genuinely sorry for their father's very narrow definition of acceptable womanhood. Man...*speechless*

I'm not even going to touch your suggestion that my daughter being herself would lead her into being a murdering whore. *rolls eyes*

You have desires as we do but you are to pretentious to admit it.
Did I pretend that I didn't have desires??

Where you are failing is in training your children to be perfectly submissive to God.
Hallah-fuckin'-lu-ja!! You're damn right. I'm failing to make them pawns in a religious game played by mysogynistic men with serious mental health issues. You couldn't have given me a greater compliment.

Preparing a woman for high education and a career is against Gods plan and I told you how things that are against God are for Satan.

So, a PhD in Religious Studies would be from Satan?

If a man sees that a young lady is not prepared to give her heart soley to God under his righteous leadership then godly men won't be interested in your daughter.
To borrow a phrase that you might use: Thank God!

How can a man be a helpmeet if the woman believes she should lead with the husband?
So,...women wanting to lead, or share leadership, is akin to anarchy? Really Old Testament stuff...?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament,..., real wrath-of-God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling.
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.


Ultimately, it all boils down to whether you believe in God's word or not.
Not.

God didn't say, "Obey your husband if he's smarter than you" or "obey your husband if that's what works for you at the moment". By allowing your daughters to play rough with your sons you are encouraging strife.
You know what else God didn't say?? God didn't say "Thou shalt not allow your pre-teen daughter to play with a light saber, for it will disturb the balance in the force."
Nice God, John. He didn't even see Star Wars coming? Psh...

This feminist attitude for young women is a problem.
Only for a man with control issues.

My kids are gods kids.
Wow. Tough gig.

Asians are not gods people because of their belief in hindi and buddha. Asians worship a false god.

Sharon is a Christian, you dumb hick!

Unlike pmommas and I think the lord has everything to do with that.
Nice God. Where do I sign up for more of his special punishments?

I read that possummomma had a hysterectomy which robs women of their gifts. Another insult to the lord.
*weighs in hands* Fifth child? Life? Fifth child? Life?

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

Sharon can't be a Christian... she's not white, or American. If you're not white and American just like Jesus was, you can't be a True Christian.

Saurian200 said...

John,

I have purposed to bring the light of god to the dark places in the soul.

Okay.

Atheism is a dark place. I will purpose to use this mothers behavior to show her how she is blocking the light that could come to her family.

Why, if neither she nor anyone else thinks it's bad to begin with then just pointing at it and saying, "see how bad that is," won't accomplish anything.

If I go to a message board where everyone loves chocolate ice cream and I decide that I will get them to stop eating ice cream by using chocolate as an example of a bad flavor of ice cream, how successful would I be?

The answer is that I wouldn't be successful at all because they would disagree with me that chocolate is a bad flavor.

The people here don't see anything wrong with what P-Momma, is doing. Unless and untill you can demonstrate that these things actually are bad then no one is going to agree with you and "See the light".

You need to be able to demonstrate that these things are harmful using criteria that on we can both agree. BTW, that's why quoting the Bible isn't working. You believe that what the Bible says is sufficient criteria for believing something, we don't.

Here's another example. If a Muslim came to your door and started telling you that you were going to get into serious trouble with Allah because of your blasphemous ways, would you believe him? If he kept coming back and saying the same things over and over would that make you more receptive? If he backed up what he was saying with verses from the Qur'an, would that convince you?

If your answer to any of theose questions was no, then why do you expect to accomplish anything here?

Christians are bound to serve God in this way. Would we be good persons if we allowed you all to perish in the fires of hell because no one had witnessed to you.

I know that this is a common assumption, but just being common doesn't make it true. I doubt there is anyone here who hasn't been witnessed to before.

As I've been saying, we know your message. Just knowing it however, won't make us believe it.

Showing you the err of ways is a blessing to you. I want you to know the love of god but maybe I am not showing that to you.

To be blunt, no you haven't. You have been treaing since you got here like we were enemy combatants to be forced into submission.

We have seen a lot of things in your posts, but we have not seen love.

Since you mock all of my words I have to pray to know how to show you the light of Gods purpose, plan, and promise.

You don't have to pray. Yes, people here have mocked you, myself included, but many here have also been telling what you've been doing wrong.

Instead of preaching at us, you could try listening to us. Just a thought.

It's Gods plan not mine. I am allowing God to tell me how to proceed.

All right, what's God's plan for this discussion then? We'll talk about that.

I don't think I am because you are so unreceptive to the message. I know what I am telling you is pure light. I am praying for guidance on what words I can say to help you see the light and turn from darkness.

Okay, good. And if yuo don't think you're doing a good job then isn't it time to rethink your tactics?

All parents worry about their children and i hoped i could point out things to make her worry about the eternal salvation that she's keeping from her children. I don't know how you guys can ignore my words of caution.

Because, as far as we can see, the danger you want us to be cautious of doesn't exist. Just like the danger Muslims talk about doesn't exist as far as you can see. We are rejecting your words for the same reasons you reject thiers.

Here's an example I heard on The Atheist Experience (I think) that I think will make things more clear.

If a firefighter breaks into my house, tells me there's a fire, and tells me to follow him out, and I look around and see smoke and flames, then I am going to listen to him. But, if I look around and there are no flames or smoke, and I go looking around the house but can't find an sign of a fire, then I probably won't believe no matter how much he insists he's right.

I have answered your questions now.

Well, I would have liked you to elaborate on your answer to #2, but still it's a start.

Saurian200 said...

Sean,

Sharon can't be a Christian... she's not white, or American.

Of course, how could I forget?

If you're not white and American just like Jesus was, you can't be a True Christian.

The sad part is I've actually met more then one person who believed that.

john said...

How many of your kids are adopted? My point is: how do you know that the kid in the Save The Children commercials wasn't put before your eyes by God? How do you know that God only wants you to accept the children made in your bedroom? It's a good thing that, for your religion, Joseph was less picky about the kids he accepted, huh?


We think all children have a right to live but our responsibility is to the children conceived under the covenant of our marriage. Why should good Christian folk have to take care of the irresponsible actions of others? How many babys have you adopted.

Sorry, but I have to call bullshit. You gain strength from doing exactly what you want to do and you've twisted a religion to suit how you want to live. God asks some pretty terrible things of parents - why are you only obeying part of his Parenting 101 class?

We do not do what we want. We do what we are told by Almighty God. We live the teachings of Christ in perfect submission to God.
You are starting to look stupid.

Do you believe in my fuzzy-naveled, blue heffalump?
This is not a game! How can you compare this to the Lord? I can't have a discussion with you if you are going to be this stupid.

What are the commadments? I'd like to read them. Where does the Bible tell a woman what is virtuous?

In the Bible! I gave examples in my last comment. You ignored them like god because you don't want to follow the rules.

Who do the boys have to listen to?
Men have a heavier burden than women for it is we that lead women to the lord and with our guidance they will serve god. Boys listen to their mothers until they are of age to become men at the feet of their fathers. A mother should teach a son to be godly and never try to make light of his efforts to be a leader and protector of gods holy word.

Listen up, asshole. Educated women bring; knowledge, confidence, and the expanse of humanity with them into a home. If the guy in the relationship can't appreciate THOSE gifts, then he...well, he's probably you.

You have a dirty mouth. How does your husband put up with you? Why does he put up with you when there is a perfect bride of christian grace for him? What wiles you must have spun to entrap him. I am looking at a supposedly educated woman and find it very distasteful.
He's not a very good Saviour, then, John. If he was, you'd be able to lighten up and allow your daughters to live in the world because of your savior's protections. Kind of a crappy deal, if you ask me; you give him your life and he can't even secure your daughter's safety?

God gives us trials so that we may grow closer to him. If every day were perfect we wouldn't see it.

Why not turn their hearts to their children and husbands because they genuinely want to and love them? Why not fulfill a mutual goal, between parents, to have scathingly brilliant and compassionate children?
Because that is not gods plan for children Possummomma. Don't you get that we are submissive to his will. What we want for our children is for them to walk with Jesus. It doesn't matter what we parents think they should be it is out of our hands. They are gods to use. Trying to raise brilliant children is time wasted for if god wants them to be brilliant they will be. When you press your desires on them you destroy what god has laid as the foundation of their hearts. Filling women and men with useless facts when they are going to serve a righteous lord is wasted time. Girls need to learn the skills for domestic fulfillment of gods plan and boys need to learn how to use their authority to lead a woman and children down a righteous path.

Sharon can't be a Christian... she's not white, or American. If you're not white and American just like Jesus was, you can't be a True Christian
My mistake

Why, if neither she nor anyone else thinks it's bad to begin with then just pointing at it and saying, "see how bad that is," won't accomplish anything.

If you see a child about to walk into the street do you tell them the dangers right then or do you teach them about that physics means big cars going fast will hurt them?

The answer is that I wouldn't be successful at all because they would disagree with me that chocolate is a bad flavor.

Just because chocalate tastes good does not mean it is good for your body. Witnessing is the same. You tell people that they might think they are happy with chocalate but thats because they have not eaten pure vanilla. If they try pure vanilla they would be hooked.
If a Muslim came to your door and started telling you that you were going to get into serious trouble with Allah because of your blasphemous ways, would you believe him?
No. I know what god I follow. I don't follow nothingness.

As I've been saying, we know your message. Just knowing it however, won't make us believe it.
What if I could show you all of the positive changes in my life since I accepted God. I was wild in my youth until I found god and accepted his plan for families. I thought I was doing the right things and was a good person but I sinned in my heart. I sinned against my wife and god by allowing her to take birth control pills. I sinned by putting my life in debt. Now I look back and have regret for those times when I wasnt serving our lord and savior.

Instead of preaching at us, you could try listening to us. Just a thought.
I hear you. I have been you. I walked away from god once too. I listen to Pmoms envy and pride and see that its sinful. You all remark on the external beauty of her kids and don't look at their inner soul that's withering. The unhappiness is there when you look for it. It breaks my wife's heart to see these babys being led to sin.

Kathryn said...

Sorry, I got hung up on:

"Godly women are not doormats. They are beautiful decorations in the home."

I just can't stop laughing enough to post coherently.....

Atheist in a mini van. said...

Yeah, I know, Kathryn. It's like "ok...so, they're decorative door mats."

And, on a serious note: how much pressure would THAT be? To always look like you stepphed out of...I was going to say "Vogue", but I'm guessing JC Penney's circa 1878 is more appropriate, in John's wife's case. So much of what I'm reading here, John, seems to suggest that women are ornamentation. What's that about?

Paul said...

[silentsanta, NZ]
Hey there john, where's my answer? For that matter, where is your answer to saurian200, regarding why you can disregard a muslim trying to convert you, but you feel your arguments to convert us are somehow more valid?

When people make an honest effort, but arent' met with an honest effort at a reply, they can become frustrated.. and impolite :)

trust n truth said...

"What if I could show you all of the positive changes in my life since I accepted God."


What if I could show you how much Christianity hurt me and how much better, more loving, and more positive I became once I left it?

It goes both ways, sweetie.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

Sharon can't be a Christian... she's not white, or American. If you're not white and American just like Jesus was, you can't be a True Christian,

My mistake

Damn right it was. It does give us an insight John into your small minded narrow definition of Christianity and life in general.

AlisonM said...

Yeah, you know, I used to be wild and uncontrollable in my youth, drinking, smoking, fooling around. But, you know, even when I joined a church, it still didn't help. It was when I >left< it and decided to be more mature and conscious that I left off my bad habits. And I feel great now. Go figure. Somehow, without religion, I have intelligent, creative, polite, happy children. Somehow, without religion, we volunteer, we donate money and goods to charities, we have good friends, good health, and enough money to cover our needs (plus a few wants, as well.) We help out people in need when we encounter them - I've paid for the groceries of people in line in front of me when it's clear there just aren't enough pennies in their change purses to cover their meager order. We've righted wheelchairs, stayed with people whose cars have broken down until help arrives, helped carry strangers up staircases. . .I'd like to think that none of this is anything special, that any human with compassion and ability would do the same. Somehow equating this to sinful behavior because it was done by a non-christian makes my brain hurt, but I'm sure that john would be able to explain it somehow.

We look at a child who awaits adoption as a child who needs a loving home. john sees him as the result of someone's sin who shouldn't be helped. We pursue higher education, fulfilling jobs, and pastimes that stimulate us creatively, or bring us together with friends, or closer to nature. In doing these things for ourselves, we often also do them for others - leaving behind a legacy of new discoveries of advances, different ways of learning or doing, and inspiring continued interests in the generations to come. john wants either a throwback to ancient times, or maybe just a static period forever, without advancement, and the relegation of potentially brilliant minds to rote work or the simple animal act of unchecked reproduction.

We see the expanding world as a place where a face is a face, not a black or red or yellow or white face. Sinfully, we do not attach a value judgement to that face, as john does, with the grace of god. We look at the opportunities opening up for people of all different kinds to become the best people they can be, to do whatever job suits them, to freely be part of our society and enjoy all the same rights, and celebrate that. john informs us that god wants us all to do the same things, regardless of whether we like them or do them well, and that's that. What his plans are for the non-christians, the non-heterosexuals, the physically or mentally handicapped, we probably don't want to know. What we do know, though, is that the world is a better place thanks to the works of many, many non-christians and women, and (gasp!) even homosexuals.

Our sinful world has brought forth amazing medical advances. Were we to avoid anything developed by women, jews, hindus,etc., we'd certainly need to be making all those extra children because so many of them would die from diseases or genetic conditions. Our sinful world is full of amazing art, literature, theatre, craft, architecture, but in john's world, all those people of genius would be tilling fields or popping out yearly offspring. Forget form following function, it would be all function.

Imagine, john, that you or one of your family need emergency medical care. How good would your care (or chances) be without the women EMTs, the female hospital staff, nurses, doctors, biologists, pharmacologists? Would you not get hooked up to a lifesaving machine if you knew a part or more of it had been designed by a woman? Do you think you'd be using your computer, getting onto the internet, and harassing people with your restrictive, antiquated views, if only men were allowed to become educated or have jobs?

"I was bad, but I found Jesus and now I'm good" is an argument that holds no water with anyone who got over a bad lifestyle through their own personal strength. "If you don't accept Jesus, you're a bad, wicked person" is ridiculous when said to people who do good to others as a matter of course. "Women should be submissive and obedient and stay home to raise children" is a notion that would throw us back to a time of poverty, illness, and privation, and ironic coming from someone who seems to have no difficulty enjoying the fruits of the labor of women who don't fit that mold.

You go ahead and live that way if it suits you, but you'll have to make a few changes. Tell your wife she'll have to start weaving her own cloth and sewing all the clothes and hand-washing the cloth diapers for the new baby, as well as cooking over a fire with only the food she can grow. No more doctor visits, vaccines, or medications. See how she takes that. Oh, and by the way, you'll have to give up the computer. No more internet. It might be hard for you, but believe me, we're all behind you 100% on doing that.

Terra said...

Alisonm,

Amen, girfriend.

Terra said...

Sorry, everyone, I can't help myself.

John says: "You have a dirty mouth. How does your husband put up with you? Why does he put up with you when there is a perfect bride of christian grace for him?"

My boyfriend (whom I'm living with "in sin" and oh yeah, we're an interracial couple as well...) wouldn't want your so-called "perfect bride of christian grace" because I do naughty things that your PBOCG couldn't even imagine. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, John.

Molly said...

Terra said:
"My boyfriend (whom I'm living with "in sin" and oh yeah, we're an interracial couple as well...) wouldn't want your so-called "perfect bride of christian grace" because I do naughty things that your PBOCG couldn't even imagine. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it,"

Amen

Katie said...

I recognize that I'm joining the fray late and my comment may never be read, but I needed to respond to John's statements about lupus as a punishment and responsibility only for children conceived in his marriage.

She most likely got lupus from a hormone imbalance because she disrupted gods plans for her.

John, my mother has systemic lupus. She has been on steroid therapy continuously for more than 30 years --steroids aren't used for that long unless necessary because of the serious health risks. She has dealt with all the problems lupus entails, including a near-fatal stroke 10 years ago when she was only 50. She still has language difficulties, but she has not let it slow her down for a minute. My mother is the strongest person I know, and her strength comes from HERSELF--a smart, fiercely independent, well-educated, loving woman.


We think all children have a right to live but our responsibility is to the children conceived under the covenant of our marriage. Why should good Christian folk have to take care of the irresponsible actions of others?

My brother and I are both adopted because of my mother's lupus. My parents knew that she could probably conceive but the stress of carrying and delivering a child would probably prove fatal. My parents decided to adopt children rather than risk my mother's life. They did take in someone else's "mistake"--me. My biological mother was raped when she was 16 and put me up for adoption, and I have been incredibly lucky.

My parents were both raised in Christian homes. As they matured, they grew away from their families' churches because the faith they were taught did not fit what they saw in the world and in other people. My parents still considered themselves to be Christians when my mother was diagnosed with lupus and when my brother and I were adopted. My parents are no longer religious, and that hasn't taken away from their strength, love, or compassion in any way.

Do you think you could say the same for yourself if you grew away from your faith?

Saurian200 said...

John,

If you see a child about to walk into the street do you tell them the dangers right then or do you teach them about that physics means big cars going fast will hurt them?

But a road presents dangers that are easily visable to everyone. Right now you are yelling at us not to crosss a road that we can't see in the first place.

In order for a warning about a road to have meaning, you first need to actually have roads. We've been asking you to show us the roads, you, however haven't been doing that.

Just because chocalate tastes good does not mean it is good for your body. Witnessing is the same. You tell people that they might think they are happy with chocalate but thats because they have not eaten pure vanilla. If they try pure vanilla they would be hooked.

To be blunt again, if anyone told you that, they were either stupid or lying. Many of the people here, not to mention many of the atheists in America were former Christians. Just because somone likes Chocolate doesn't mean they've never tried vanilla.

Far more likely they have but just prefer Chocolate. What you keep assuming is that people just don't know the message. You keep assuming that if people just knew what Christianity says they would automatically adopt it.

Such a view is increadably naive, as I keep saying and as you keep ignoring, we know the message, we know many other religions that say the EXACT SAME thing. What you need to show us and which you have not been showing us, is why we should listen to your message and not theirs.

I keep bringing up the idea of a Muslim trying to get you to convert for a resaon. Before you make an argument, think about if you were being presented with a similar argument from a Muslim. If you wouldn't be convinced to convert to Islam don't expect us to be convinced to convert to Christianity.

No. I know what god I follow. I don't follow nothingness.

So, you are convinced tht you have the truth and that everyone else in the entire world who believes differently is wrong and that everyone else in history who believed differently was wrong, why?

Try starting there instead of just repeating over and over again what you believe and acting like your word is unquestionable. If ALL those other people were wrong, then you need to put some serious work into showing that you aren't wrong too.

What if I could show you all of the positive changes in my life since I accepted God.

And I could show you all the positive changes in other peoples lives since they converted to a whole host of other religions beside yours. Many of the people here could list many positive changes in their lives since they became atheists.

As I've been asking, would that convince you? If not what makes you think it would convince us.

was wild in my youth until I found god and accepted his plan for families. I thought I was doing the right things and was a good person but I sinned in my heart. I sinned against my wife and god by allowing her to take birth control pills. I sinned by putting my life in debt. Now I look back and have regret for those times when I wasnt serving our lord and savior.

Heard it before, and not just from Christians. I've heard it from people who converted to other religions. I've heard similar from people who have become atheists.

Not to mention an ideology can produce good changes in a person's life without being true. Such an argument just doesn't support your claim.

I have been you.

No you weren't me. Don't be so arrogant. Even if yuo were an unbeliever once, that doesn't mean your life was anything like mine or anyone elses here. You don't know what my life has ben like, you don't know what's going on in my mind. Even if everything you've said about your past is true, that isn't even remotely enough to say that you have any idea who we are, what we think or what we've been through.

Non-believers come in many forms. They have many beliefs that aren't shared by all. They have many experiences that aren't shared by all. Two people can be non-believers and have radically different lives, ideas, beliefs and experieces. To suggest otherwise would be to be generalizing to an absolutely insane degree if not an outright lie.

This is probably at the heart of you problem. You are assuming you know a lot more than you actually do and it's making you look like a pompous, self-centered, arrogant, jackass.

I hear you. I have been you. I walked away from god once too. I listen to Pmoms envy and pride and see that its sinful. You all remark on the external beauty of her kids and don't look at their inner soul that's withering. The unhappiness is there when you look for it. It breaks my wife's heart to see these babys being led to sin.

If you think we have just been complimenting their outer beuty then you haven't been paying attention much.

So, no, you haven't been listening. You seem to have assumed that you already knew everything you need to know about us. Because of that you're talking at us instead of with us and that only generated discord. But, you're wrong. You really don't seem to know much about us at all.

I know this a cliche but based on what you've told me, you really do need to get out more. There is a lot more to the world than you seem to realize. If you can;t demonstate that you know what's going on around you then no one will believe that you know great truths about the universe.

Saurian200 said...

Terra,

whom I'm living with "in sin" and oh yeah, we're an interracial couple as well...)

The Horror! The Horror! ;)

My boyfriend (whom I'm living with "in sin" and oh yeah, we're an interracial couple as well...) wouldn't want your so-called "perfect bride of christian grace" because I do naughty things that your PBOCG couldn't even imagine.

Go on...

Saurian200 said...

Katie,

I recognize that I'm joining the fray late and my comment may never be read...

Well, I read it.

Chris said...

I am looking at a supposedly educated woman and find it very distasteful.

Once again with the admission that you can't handle anything more than a submissive, trained slave woman under the disguise of your religion.

No. I know what god I follow. I don't follow nothingness.

And neither do we, Jon, neither do we.

What if I could show you all of the positive changes in my life since I accepted God.

Jon, a word of advice...you might want to avoid using yourself as an example of the positive changes gods message can have on somebody. I don't know what you were like before you turned to god, though I doubt any explanation on your part would be without bias, but I can guarentee you that you will not convince anybody that your current self, the one after you turned to the lord, is worth emulating or achieving. Why would I want to listen to gods message if it turned us into a misogynistic, racist, hate filled person with a clear disability regarding reality. Please note, I am not being sarcastic in the least. This is exactly how you come across, and not just to the atheists on this blog.

I think this line deserves repeating:

Godly women are not doormats. They are beautiful decorations in the home.

Decorations. Seriously? Decorations? Like a vase? Or a rug? Or a painting?

trust n truth said:
What if I could show you how much Christianity hurt me and how much better, more loving, and more positive I became once I left it?

Jon, you'll find that many of us are in the same boat as this. I am a much better person now that I don't have the christian doctrine embeded in me. I know plenty of people, too, who would do well to follow our lead. For example, my family is a preacher family. I've got almost a dozen preachers on my moms side of the family alone (and this is without going into extended family), and I can't count the number of churches that they've either started or preached at. And yet, my moms side of the family contains some of the biggest racists I've ever met. Outside of the odd whacko I see online, such as yourself, the most hate filled words I've ever heard have come from the most religious in my family, those actually doing the preaching being some of the worst offenders. And, of course, it's all in the name of lord.

You've failed to comment on something I saw mentioned a few times. If you answered it, sorry for not seeing it. But you've said that you follow the bible and your gods instructions on raising children to the letter. Right? Then how aren't you in jail for child abuse, and either your children taken by child services or dead? Did you forget about the whole "stoning unruly children" bit? Or can you honestly say that your childen have never, ever done anything that your overzealous, fundamental self could consider to be unruly, disrespectful or ungodly? And if that's the case...will you rightfully stone them when they eventually do something wrong in the eyes of your god?

Thank you Jon for strengthening my reasoning for abandoning christianity and the christian god.

Chris said...

alisonm, very well put. Kudos and thanks to you :)

Atheist in a mini van. said...

Katie,
I'm sorry that you have the misfortune to have a personal knowledge of SLE. But, I have to say that you mom gives me a lot of hope. So, for that, thank you for sharing her story and experience.
-Chris

Katie said...

saurian200:
Is it a good thing or a bad thing that you read it?

P-momma:
SLE (or any other chronic disease) can limit your life if you let it, but it doesn't have to. My mom turned 60 this year, which is pretty amazing for a woman on long-term steroids with a history of seizures and a very severe stroke! She decided to celebrate making it this far by going to DC to march in a protest for environmental change and actually talked to some senators about it. I'm proud of her and I wish I had her strength!

I normally take a "don't feed the trolls" approach, but when John hit on SLE and adoption I couldn't keep my mouth shut.

John, you seem to think that having educated, intelligent, analytical kids is a bad thing! I was raised to question authority, expect answers, think for myself, and be an independent person! I have a great deal of respect for people who earn it, but it's not something I hand out because you're older or bigger than me.

Despite the fact that I was not raised in a particularly religious home, I'm now happily married, I have a Master's degree, I have a job I love (I'm a speech language pathologist working with autistic/special needs kids--how's that for atheists not caring about other people), I plan to pursue my Ph.D, and I am very close to my family--my parents are good friends of mine who see me as an equal. I hardly think that being an atheist is a death sentence! To the contrary, the fact that I have one chance to live my life makes it that much better.

Oh, and for the record, I asked my husband how he puts up with an educated, strong-willed, analytical, liberated wife...he said that he doesn't put up with it, he loves it. :) What can I say, John...don't knock it 'til you've tried it!

Bwian said...

"Or can you honestly say that your childen have never, ever done anything that your overzealous, fundamental self could consider to be unruly, disrespectful or ungodly?"

In fact, we know they have. He could not believe, based on his own experience, that PM's children were as well-behaved as she claimed. Of course, he didn't clarify if they were his surviving children or not, so I suppose he could be carrying out the stonings as prescribed.

Paul said...

[Silentsanta, NZ]
That's the start of an interesting thought experiment, bwian. If one is to stone disobedient children at every step over a hundred generations, would one end up with a submissive, obedient cohort of adherents that have evolved a sort of mental block against questioning authority figures?
It's like evolution, but with artificial selection. Either way, Jesus wins...

Saurian200 said...

Katie,

Is it a good thing or a bad thing that you read it?

A good thing.