Friday, August 17, 2007

The Catholics discuss NFP



Of course, "Contraception" is evil and promoting teh' baby killaz'. And, people who use contraception don't talk. And, that women on birth control are "moody and hormonal". ROFLOL

But, wait...there's more.
Part II - Revenge of the Fallacies


"NFP users stay together longer with no divorce." I want to see the stats on that one!!

Part III - The Pope Strikes Back


"Natural family planning has no health risks."
Um. I dunno'. Pregnancy is natural and all, but it's a bit far fetched to say that multiple pregnancies, one after the other, would be totally risk free.

Episode IV - Attack of the Librul' Media Bias


*rolls eyes* They're short. Enjoy. ;)

31 comments:

steelcobra said...

Wow. Even though they leave out that the pull-out method, which this basically is, is one of the least effective means of birth control.

"NFP users never get divorced"
No, catholics just never go back to the same church after they're divorced.

Allyson said...

or, "Catholics get annullments, which are not the same as divorce"


(my father managed to get his marriage to my mom annulled after their divorce so he could marry his Catholic girlfriend in the Catholic Church.)

AlisonM said...

I love how he's "a contraceptive". Yeah, there's only one, and it has horrible health risks. Hubby's first wife was Catholic and they practiced NFP. It wasn't fun, it didn't get them to talk more, it didn't prevent their divorce, or her later petition for an annulment. They could have done a perfectly amusing and informative set of mac vs PC ad parodies without including the lies, but NOOOOO. . .

Poodles Rule said...

In my human sexuality class in college before the professor began the session on NFP she started out with this comment: "Know what they call people who practice NFP? Parents."

My husband and I got married in the catholic church and I remember that when they discussed NFP at the hellatious weekend retreat we had to do that the hosting couple said that if you get pregnant using NFP then it is god's will. They were "blessed" with 5 tax deductions.

tnskeptic said...

Yes, they are short but just not short enough. Half way through was about as far as I could go with any of them.

Allyson said...

In my human sexuality class in college before the professor began the session on NFP she started out with this comment: "Know what they call people who practice NFP? Parents."

My psychology of women professor called NFP "Catholic Roulette"

Perpetual Beginner said...

My BIL and his wife, being devout Catholics, went the NFP route when they got married - for 2 months. Then she got pregnant.

After that, they went with alternative forms of birth control.

Rico said...

Sure the "natural" selling point is strongly pushed, however what is often never mentioned is all the measurement taking, every day. From what I can remember there is temperature taking, mucus testing, mucus color, recording of intercourse, and recording of menstruation. Just short of recording the phase of the moon. Anyway, with all of that NFP sounds more clinical than natural. And aren't constant measurement taking and record keeping scientific virtues?

amarullis said...

PM- Hahaha..I almost thought you were calling the guys in the video short (as in not tall)!

Rico- yes, and who gets to do all that measurement taking, the woman of course.

When I was on the pill, I had an alarm set at 8pm to remember to take it and my boyfriend would turn the alarm off, get me something to drink, and bring me the pill. It was only the fair way to do it :)
I fewer mood issues on the pill because they level out hormones and reduce the worry of an unplanned pregnancy. I had less pain during my period and had a shorter period too. Women using NFP have to experience more physical pain than women on the pill {during period, pregnancy, childbirth, sore nipples (if breastfeeding)}, etc. Libido and sexual gratification were unchanged for me on the pill. They never limited discussion about sex or anything else. I think we were more free to really explore each other. The only negative for me was that they eventually cause increased blood pressure, so I had to stop.

shaun said...

1) Pulling out is risking the guy waiting until the last minute to pull out which will more than likely end up leaving some "goof-juice" where none is wanted.

2) If pulling out is preventing pregnancy, why is using a contraceptive bad?

3) My wife's hormones were much, MUCH worse before she started using the pill.

4) See 1, 2, and 3 again.

Paul said...

[Silentsanta, NZ]

My biggest problem with the Catholic stance on contraception is the effect it has on believers in developing nations. Sure, getting pregnant accidentally in a first-world country is a life-changing pain in the ass, but it's something else again for people living near (or under) the poverty line.
When Catholic teaching traps generations of people in poverty, in subsistence lifestyles, it carries an enormous cost in human suffering. Collectively, I think, far more suffering than, say, one person being nailed to a cross...

Stephen said...

I can't get over how uptight and prude these nfp people are. There's this one Catholic blog I read from time to time called "Up on Christian Hill" http://uponchristianhill.blogspot.com/ . It's pretty much all NFP all the time. My understanding of this blogger's position is that the only "acceptable" sex is coitus (penis penetrating the vagina)in the missionary position. Oral sex, masturbation, sex toys, or any other sexual activity is strictly off limits. How boring!

Oh yeah, someone mentioned pulling out. That's not allowed either. The only thing NFP cultists can do is take the measurements and abstain from sex during the fertile period. The whole thing seems very, very sad to me. The whole purpose for sex to these people is procreation. Somehow if they have sex during the infertile period they are not breaking the rules because there is still a small chance they could get pregnant.

Perpetual Beginner said...

The thing that always puzzles the hell out of me is that Catholics will deny that NFP is birth-control, and claim it's effective in practically the same breath. If it's effective it's birth control.

Not to mention, why is one allowed to use math to prevent birth, but not chemistry or physics?

Milo Johnson said...

I'm honestly not trying to be insulting, but I'm afraid there's no way I could believe that these dorks know anything at all about human sexuality...

Atheist in a mini van. said...

I love how he's "a contraceptive". Yeah, there's only one, and it has horrible health risks.

EXACTLY!!! Because, you know...condoms can kill you. ;) LOL And....whoa, baby...watch out for the diaphragm (sp?). You never know when those things will wander up to your heart and block off an artery. *rolls eyes*

1) Pulling out is risking the guy waiting until the last minute to pull out which will more than likely end up leaving some "goof-juice" where none is wanted.

Goof juice?! LOL

Oh yeah, someone mentioned pulling out. That's not allowed either.
I totally want to see the catechism book that teaches THAT little nugget.
"No, Timmy. You MUST cum in her. Every sperm is sacred."

shaun said...

The only thing NFP cultists can do is take the measurements and abstain from sex during the fertile period.

Wait a minute - didn't the one ad say that they can have sex whenever they wanted? If they're trying to avoid pregnancy, I can think of (about)a three-day span when they most certainly CANNOT have sex. LIARS!!

Kazim said...

Bah. Nothing good can come from those smarmy Mac ads.

Just from a stylistic point of view, those parody commercials are driving me crazy. The piano theme is kind of cute in a real Mac ad, which lasts 30 seconds. And it ends with a little flourish that lets you know the spot is over, which gives some musical closure. The Catholic stuff just has some idiot on a piano plinking out the same six notes over and over again for like two minutes, and then it just ENDS.

Grrr. Total lack of even trivial artistic sensibilities.

Reg Nullify said...

What is unfortunate is that someone will watch these videos and believe this crap. I once had a conversation about church's stand on birth control with a cousin who is a Catholic priest. After hearing him out, I told him that sex is like sports, if you don't play the game, you don't get to make the rules.

susanbrown said...

NFP propaganda boasts of the effectiveness of preventing pregnancy compared to other methods -- but wait just one minute -- they are using the "perfect use" rate for the NFP figure and the "real world" rate for other forms of contraception. (Planned Parenthood's site has the stats.)

Others here have posted about the deception in their "low" divorce rates, too. We could assume here that they are mostly using anecdotal evidence and extremely small sample sizes.

steelcobra said...

I totally want to see the catechism book that teaches THAT little nugget.
"No, Timmy. You MUST cum in her. Every sperm is sacred."


::Singing::
There are jews in the world
there a buddhists
there are hindus and mormons and then
there are those that follows mohammed's books
I've never been one of them

I'm a roman catholic
and have been since before I was born
and the one thing they say about catholics is
"they'll take you as soon as you're warm"
you don't need to be a six footer
ya don't have ta have a great brain
you don't have to have any clothes on you're
A catholic the moment dad came

Because
Every sperm is sacred
every sperm is great
if a sperm is wasted
god gets quite irate

Let the heathens spill theirs
on the dusty ground
god shall make them pay
for each sperm that can't be found
::end singing::

I did that from memory, but I didn't want to drag it out too long. I love Monty Python so much.

Saurian200 said...

Steelcobra,

What's sad is that untill you said that it was a Monty Python song, I actually believed you were giving us an actual song taught at Catholic schools.

Things have gotten to the point where I can't tell the difference between truth and parody when it comes to religon. It's just too silly.

Chakolate said...

Hey, don't bash NFP. I am a product of NFP. If my parents had used effective birth control, I wouldn't be here today. So stop knocking it, okay? :-p

Seriously, though, the website mentioned at the end, one more soul dot com - did that strike anybody else as being... well, Mephistophelean?

Perpetual Beginner said...

I didn't notice it at first, but there are no women on the contraceptive side (at least in as much of the ads as I could stand watching).

What - are they implying that women have no interest in contraceptives? Or are they just convinced that if they win over the men, the women will naturally follow?

amarullis said...

Or are they just convinced that if they win over the men, the women will naturally follow?

No, they understand that in many relationships (esp. between the very young and religious) men are able to bully women into not using contraception (like in refusing t wear condomns, but the women still participates). NFP, will give the woman who lets her man control her sexuality a sense of control herself as she tracks and takes measurements.

Sue Doe-Nim said...

Hiya, POH here just dropping in to let you know I'm still reading and to show you my new digs.

Chakolate said...

Hey, PM,

You probably don't remember but I left a comment a while back about how if we had a national religion maybe we'd have more peace. Like the French are a Catholic nation but no French people seem to care much. (I am not advocating a national religion, merely remarking on the phenomenon.)

This article expresses what I was trying to say, much better than I ever could:
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/ingroup.htm

particularly this part (quote)

When people are secure about their own identity and the identity of their group, and there is no competition for resources, conflict is not normally a problem. But if people are insecure about what their group means, or their place in it, they may support conflict as a way to enhance cohesion within the group, Brewer said.

That suggests that marginal members of a group – those who feel least included – will be the ones most concerned about keeping distance between groups and pushing hostility toward outgroups.
(end of quote)

Sorry about posting this in the comments, I couldn't find any other way to reach you.

Best,

Chakolate

Anonymous said...

Note from the possum family -
P-Momma is very ill. In-and-out of the hospital for the past week. Hopefully, she'll be back in good form soon. Right now, she's not in any serious danger, she's just in a great deal of pain (five kidney stones in seven days) and has septicemia from strep-A. It's the monkey on her back. Her lupus leaves her immune system weak and when the strep swoops in her body can't react fast enough. I'll be making this post in a regular post form as soon as I can get the password.
I know P-momma is upset about not being very helpful what with school starting tomorrow for the possums. It's P#3's first day ever. :(
- P. Friend

Tatarize said...

Why are you people attacking NFP so much. My parents used it throughout their marriage and they are still happily married. My brothers and sisters are also huge advocates! -- You people really need the facts before you jump to such conclusions.

:)

Maggie Rosethorn said...

Oy! Give Pmomma my best and get well soon wishes! One of the most horrible things about lupus. Sorry to hear that she got slammed by strep again. And kidney stones...

Do well, Pmomma. You are in my thoughts.

Vincent said...

Wait a minute - didn't the one ad say that they can have sex whenever they wanted?
This puzzled me at first until I realized that NFP practitioners can have sex whenever they want. That's all they said.
NFP practitioners just realize that if they do have sex at certain times they are likely to have a pregnancy. That doesn't mean they can't have sex. It just means they can't have worry-free sex.

I too noticed that they never mentioned condoms.

Finally, to Tatarize, I don't have a problem with NFP. I have a problem with people promoting NFP through lies and misinformation.
I don't think anyone here has said NFP is bad, just that there are down sides that the videos completely ignore and that other forms of birth control are easier and as effective, and don't have the health risks they allude to.

Actually, that one (the naturalist fallacy) really bugged me. That orange may be natural, and the overall benefits outweigh the risks, but don't delude yourself. An orange contains about 16 known carcinogens. The most risky thing in the "unnatural" juice drink is sugar, and that's in the orange too.

Vincent said...

One last thing.
My wife stopped taking birth control pills because of some side effects (headaches mainly) but mood swings was not one of them. Her mood swings come from her natural hormonal cycles.