Friday, July 06, 2007

"Reversion to Catholicism"

From the Austin Statesmen (which I never read, but google news is my friend).

Reversion to Catholicism Brings Professor Full Circle
"Writing about faith, I've discovered, means writing about conversion. Not just the Methodist who becomes Muslim or the Reform Jew who goes Orthodox. But the conversion of a person's heart, the epiphanies that steer a person's life in a new direction, the crisis that robs belief. Or restores it."

The "crisis that ROBS belief"? Yeah. This is going nowhere fast. Just FYI - there was no "crisis" that "robbed" me of my belief. I wonder how many people "revert" back to belief because they've seen over-whelming scientific proof?

"In the case of Francis Beckwith, the Baylor University professor who made news earlier this year when he announced his return to the Catholic faith of his youth, the conversion evolved constantly and quietly."

Falling back into old patterns of behavior, especially destructive patterns of behavior, usually inspires an intervention by those who witness the destructive behavior. But, I guess if the old habit is religion, it's all good? So much for personal growth...

"What could be more personal than a man re-examining his convictions, sharing them with his family and priest and rejoining something he'd left behind? And yet Beckwith's decision was by no means private. Because of his role as president of the Evangelical Theological Society and because of his association with a Baptist university, Beckwith's reconversion, or reversion, to Catholicism drew national media attention and elicited the ire of his evangelical colleagues."

Since when has any born again believer kept that shit private? Ooooooh, but the real marrow of this article is starting to show: this is like turf wars. It's like West Side Story for your soul. *hums "When you're a Jet!"*

"You are embracing serious theological error," warned one."
Pot. Kettle. Black.

"I talked by phone with Beckwith, 46, during a rare break from his travel and writing (he's wrapping up a book on politics and religion due out next year). "

...because, we can't let the atheists have all of the best-selling books. Here comes the backlash, folks. After so many DE-CONVERSION stories and people claiming that they've seen the folly of religion, it's time of the theists to bring on the glurge. It's time for RE-CONVERSION stories.

"I first wanted to know what led him away from Catholicism. And how his family reacted.
Beckwith said he was coming of age in 1970s Las Vegas when his parents' friend left "Good News for Modern Man," a modern English version of the New Testament, at his home. The 12-year-old Beckwith devoured it, then accompanied the man to a Jesus People church, where he heard from various Christian traditions — a different denomination every week. As a teen, he frequented evangelical bookstores and attended nondenominational churches such as Calvary Chapel, searching, he said, for something a little more sophisticated than the morality lessons he read in his Catholic high school. "


*blinks* Fortune cookies are more sophisticated than Catholic morality lessons!! Is he going to "go Asian"? Confucius say, "Confused man is ripe for the pickin's." Ok. Confucius didn't really say that.

"Now this is where you expect the parents to hit the roof.
Instead, they let him follow his theological curiosity. "I guess in their mind they thought, 'he's not doing drugs. OK, it's Protestant, but he hasn't become a Moonie or anything,' " Beckwith said laughing. "My parents were always very open, and I never felt that they interfered with what I was doing." "


Yeah. In the seventies, especially the early seventies, I'm sure there were more parents hitting bongs than roofs. But, kudos to his folks for allowing him to explore his spirituality. Still... love the "He hasn't become a Moonie..." line. Because, as any caring parent knows, old cults are better than new ones. *rolls eyes*

The rest of the article is entertaining. It basically devolves into the position that theists are doing better because they're trying to find common ground - rather than persecuting each other and condemning the practices of the other sects. It's really just a kinder, gentler theism. *sarcasm*


36 comments:

John said...

This post is jealousy.

You don't believe in the true Church and you hate that someone is happy in the love of God. Are you mad that they're getting attention and your not?

Why do you care or read about news about these things? This man is honorable.

Saurian200 said...

John,

Considering that you've been ignoring posts to you I feel pretty confident calling you a troll.

Given your record so far, I'm not going to bother with a serious discussion of why your wrong. (Hint: You aren't psychic. You don't know squat about what is going on in Possummomma's head.)

Instead all I'll say is, grow up and get a life loser.

Saurian200 said...

P-Momma,

It basically devolves into the position that theists are doing better because they're trying to find common ground - rather than persecuting each other and condemning the practices of the other sects.

Theists are doing what now?

Since when?

john said...

Sauri (SORRY is more like it) you can call me what you will. I'm not a troll. I respond when the question is worth a response.

You aren't psychic. You don't know squat about what is going on in Possummomma's head.)

I'm a psychologist.

Instead all I'll say is, grow up and get a life loser.
My life belongs to God. I am but a vessel. What about u?

Atheist in a mini van. said...

This post is jealousy.
Actually, this post is a series of characters that make up words. But...whatever.

You don't believe in the true Church and you hate that someone is happy in the love of God. Are you mad that they're getting attention and your not?

You're right. I don't believe in a true church because I don't believe there is such a thing as a "true" church. I don't hate people who are happy in the love of God, either. I hate people who are sanctomonious jerks BECAUSE of their belief in a god. Big difference.

Why do you care or read about news about these things? This man is honorable.
I care because I consider myself a responsible, informed adult. This man's honor is not in question.

Sauri (SORRY is more like it) you can call me what you will. I'm not a troll. I respond when the question is worth a response.

John, John, John,...

I'm a psychologist.
Scary.

My life belongs to God. I am but a vessel. What about u?

A pompous, arrogant, annoying vessel, but a vessel, I suppose.

Saurian200 said...

John,

I'm not a troll. I respond when the question is worth a response.

I hate to break it to you but that is something trolls do. When someone poses questions to you in an online discussion forum (like in a comments thread) it is considered very rude and disrepectful to not post some kind of reply.

So yes, you are a troll. Get used to it.

I'm a psychologist.

So, what? That doen't mean that your observations and unsupported assertions about P-Momma are any more accurate.

I'm dead serious when I say this; I can't imagine that you are a very good one.

More importantly, given your actions you are putting an absolutly horrible face on psychologists.

Consider the APA's (not to say you are a member or even American) code of conduct:

Principle E: Respect for People's Rights and Dignity

Psychologists respect the dignity and worth of all people...


And further:

Psychologists are aware of and respect cultural, individual, and role differences, including those based on age, gender, gender identity, race, ethnicity, culture, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, disability, language, and socioeconomic status...

If you want people to take you seriously, then try a little professionalism.

Stop ignoring posts. (I don't care if you find the post "worthy" or not and neither does anyone else.)

Stop with the insults, this isn't a schoolyard and you aren't six years old.

And finally and most important, start supporting your assertons. No, saying "I'm a psychologist." is NOT support. Anyone can say that. Unless you can demonstarate why you feel your assertions have merit then nobody is going to take them seriously.

My life belongs to God. I am but a vessel. What about u?

I actually have a life. If you have devoted your life entirely to a character that you don't even know if he exists, and worse, if you feel your god would actually want to totally devote your life to it, then I pity you.

That's not a loving being and I wouldn't be proud to be a servent. Especially not if your god condones the behavior you've been demonstarting.

Paul said...

John said...

This post is jealousy

What? Where? I read PM's comments as an observation of why christians feel the need to advertise something that should be personal and no one else's business. It is almost childlike the way christians crave attention and approval. As an alleged psychologist, you should have a name for such infantile behavior.

I'm a psychologist

I doubt it.

Queen Pickle said...

I'm a psychologist.

Yeah, and I'm the Great Pumpkin!

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

"I am but a vessel".

and an empty one at that.

As to being a psychologist, I doubt it as well. What's your argument, an appeal to personal authority?

John said...

I hate to break it to you but that is something trolls do. When someone poses questions to you in an online discussion forum (like in a comments thread) it is considered very rude and disrepectful to not post some kind of reply.

Do you answer stupid questions? I don't because it is a waste of time. Atheists like you have not given me any questions that are worth thinking about. There are some things that are obvious and God is one of them. I pity you that you do not feel that certainty.


So, what? That doen't mean that your observations and unsupported assertions about P-Momma are any more accurate.
Yes, I believe it does. I work with the criminal mind and the depraved. Possummomma is a depressed person who needs help. Her anger and venom are directed at the people she is most jealous of. Christians have security about the hereafter. She doesn't and so she makes posts that belittle people who know they are going to heaven. She is a classic case of avoidance.


I actually have a life. If you have devoted your life entirely to a character that you don't even know if he exists, and worse, if you feel your god would actually want to totally devote your life to it, then I pity you.
You have devoted your life to sin and blasphemy of course God wants you to live righteously. He gave you freewill and you are choosing not not be as he intended.

I answered your questions. I'm not a troll.
I will ask you some now.
Do you think a mother should be on the computer instead of with her kids?
Do you think happy people google religious articles so they can make fun of honorable people?
Do you think parents who make friends with their kids to be good parents? Answer those. Possummomma is sinning because she's not teaching her kids how to respect authority and love others. She has put other things before the Lord and is denying her kids a chance to know god and worship him. She wants all of their admiration and devotion. Don't you think that's selfish? Answer that.

Saurian200 said...

John,

Do you answer stupid questions?

Yes, it doesn't matter whether you consider a question smart or stupid. If someone asks you a quezstion you should answer it.

I don't because it is a waste of time.

Considering how much time you spend on this site complaining about possummomma your time obviously isn't that precious. Frankly, your actions don't match your words.

If your time is so important to you then leave this site. Staying here will only further waste your "important" time.

Atheists like you have not given me any questions that are worth thinking about. There are some things that are obvious and God is one of them. I pity you that you do not feel that certainty.

It's been my experience speaking with many believers such as you that "It's obvious to me." is the equivilent of saying, "This is what I believe. I can not back it up and I don't really want to try."

It's hard to take your beliefs seriously if this all you can say about why you hold them. If you pity me for that then go ahead and pity me. I"m not going to lose sleep over it.

Yes, I believe it does. I work with the criminal mind and the depraved.

No, it doesn't. If you beleif it does then you are wrong.

As I said. Anyone can declare themselves an expert. We don't know anything about you. YOu could be lying. You could truly believe these things but be mistaken. Even if you are an actual expert I don't see how you can coclude these things about possummomma from just a few posts on her blog. It just isn't enough.

I keep saying this but nobody takes it to heart. No one will believe what you say just because you say it. You actually have to support what you say. As of yet, you haven't even tried.

If you aren't going to support your claims then no one is going to believe anything you say and you might as well leave because you would only be further wasting your time.

Unless all your here to do is complain and hurl insults at the posters here. If that's the case then you really are just a troll.

So, put up or shut up.

Her anger and venom are directed at the people she is most jealous of. Christians have security about the hereafter. She doesn't and so she makes posts that belittle people who know they are going to heaven. She is a classic case of avoidance.

Again, more claims and no support. Why should I believe any of this?

You have devoted your life to sin and blasphemy of course God wants you to live righteously.He gave you freewill and you are choosing not not be as he intended.


You don't know a thing about me. Certainly not about to what I have "devoted" my life.

Is this what you consider good psychology? Do you consider making snap judgements about people based on only a tiny bit of information to be the work of a professional psycologist?

This is why I (and apparently many other posters) don't believe that you really are a professional psychologist. At the very least we don't think you are a very good one.

I answered your questions. I'm not a troll.

You answered some of my questions. For instance I saked you about your credentials or at least to give me some reason to believe that you really are who you say you are. You completely ignored that question and instead repeat the claim.

Not to mention the fact that you have ignored other posts to you. Like I asked, are you really here for a discussion or just to complain. If the former then act like it. If the latter then yes you are a troll.

I will ask you some now.

Sure thing. Ask away.

Do you think a mother should be on the computer instead of with her kids?

It's "questions" like this that make me think your a troll. How long do you think it took her to write that post and the followup comment? Assuming that she did it all in one sit down then let's trow in the time it took her to find and read the origional article.

Not very long. There is nothing in that post or anything in the entire blog that suggests that she spends an unusual amount of time online.

In fact given how much of what she writes deals with her time with her kids it appear that she spends a lot of time with her children.

If you are truly concerned with how much time she spends with her kids then why are you asking me about it istead of her?

Do you think happy people google religious articles so they can make fun of honorable people?

Depending upon that person's interests the yes. I don;t see any problem.

Remember, mockery is often the most effective form of criticism. If you have a problem with what she wrote then explain why she's wrong. Don't just complain about her making fun of someone.

Do you think parents who make friends with their kids to be good parents?

Is this a trick question? Hell yes. Just because you are friends with someone doesn't mean you can't be an effective parent, role model, teacher etc. to them. Quite the opposite, it can often make you more effective because it will case your kids to naturally respect you and what you have to say.

Answer those.

Done.

Possummomma is sinning because she's not teaching her kids how to respect authority and love others. She has put other things before the Lord and is denying her kids a chance to know god and worship him. She wants all of their admiration and devotion.

Again, more claims and no support.

Don't you think that's selfish? Answer that.

If Possummomma was actually doing that then she would be selfish. However I see no reason to believe that she is actually doing that, nor have you provided any reasons to believe that.

So while a person acting that way would be selfish, I don't believe that Possummomma acts that way or is selfish.

Now that I have answered your questions why don't you answer the rest of mine. Or, better yet why don't you answer the questions posed to you by other posters like Paul or Sean. Or, even better, why don't you show us some support for the absolutely outrageous accusations you've made against Possummomma.

Will yo do any of that? Or, will you just hurl more insults, make more unsupported accusations, or just plain run away. If thats the direction you want to go fine but you'll only confirm that you are indeed a troll.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

I'm going to apologize, now, for how long this is going to be. I've had it with John.

John,
Ah, yes...here we go: "You must be a bad mother...you're on the internet!"
Let's see. If you were at all observant, you'd note that I'm rarely on before noon. Why? Because, shit has to get done; kids to feed, dress, day plan, and entertain (read to, play with, do projects with). I usually pop-on the net around 1pm (during rest time). Then, it's usually back to RAISING MY KIDS until bedtime (which is basically whenever they fall asleep).

And, to that point - since you brought it up elsewhere - YES! I let my kids determine their own schedules, within reason. I suppose I could, as you suggest, enforce a strict schedule for all of the kids. But,...why? (For those playing the home game - John is calling me a bad parent because, in another forum, I made a comment (at 10:00pm) that I had P#4 on my lap).
1. It's summer.
2. He's two. He crashes around eight, sleeps for a couple of hours, and then wakes up hungry. So... we usually share some blueberries or graham crackers n' milk at ten. Then he goes back to sleep until 7:15-8:00am.
I don't know why he wakes up at ten and, frankly, it doesn't concern me. If I take that time to cuddle him and share some one-on-one time, then who are you to be the TimeNazi? You do what works in your house and I'll do what works in mine.
I treat my children as individuals. One schedule does not fit all. So, my husband and I decided to be fluid as to help THEM be the best they could be.

As for my google news surfing...lol. Is that all you've got? Every afternoon, I log onto google news and put in random key words. Today it was "Catholic+Austin". *shrug*

In regards to my kids being my "friend". Well, this is timely, as my friend Matt can attest, because we've been discussing this very issue.
You, John, are freakin' clueless as to my relationship with my kids. I am not my child's best friend. Nor do I have any desire to be. I am their guide. I am their guardian. I hope to be their sounding board and greatest confidant. I am not concerned, however, with them liking me (which tends to be one of the qualifications of a friendship). I happen to believe that if you do your job as a parent correctly, then the relationship between parent and child will have ups-and-downs which teach the child to function in the real world. There's a difference between guiding your children and DOMINEERING them.

Atheists like you have not given me any questions that are worth thinking about.
Ok. I'll give you some questions to think about.
1) Explain the scientific method and how you might use it to examine your belief in a Judeo-Christian God. Name one example where the scientific method can be used to support your belief.
2) How is having an iron-clad schedule a boon to the child? What about the tendency of children raised in such strict environments to develop OCD and have problems with flexibility? You once posted an example of your daughter's schedule (which I will post here in italics). I have changed her name to protect her identity.
Amy's day.
8:00 Amy wakes.
8:10 Amy is put in high chair for breakfast.
8:30 Amy is put in tub for bath.
8:40 Amy is dressed and John takes Amy to school.
9:15 Arrive at school.
5:45 Sharon picks Amy up at school.
6:30 Amy is put in high chair and given food.
6:50 Amy and Sharon take a walk.
7:45 Sharon returns. Amy is changed into pajamas.
8:00 John reads to Amy.
8:30 Amy is put to bed.


Dude. Do you schedule love and cuddling, too? What about playing? I have a son the same age as Amy- he can spend a half-hour sitting in his highchair using his finger to make designs in his yogurt and fruit. Bathtime is a friggin' event around here: we have to pull P3 and P4 out because they'll play in there until they're pruney. We have plastic dinosaurs, whales and sharks, and a variety of cups/bowls/seives/spoons/scoops. In the other forum you said:
What's the point of toys in the tub?
Let me answer your question: BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING FUN! AND, BECAUSE KIDS ARE LEARNING AT ALL TIMES- not just when you schedule it.
I've got a four year old who can name every whale and shark. I've got a two year old who can tell you how many teaspoons go in a cup. And, *gasp* sometimes we let them get the freaking floor wet because it's just a floor. We can mop the water up.

Ok. I need to stop. As Saurian said, John: BRING IT! If you think I'm a bad parent, then put the evidence out there. I'm not afraid. I'm not perfect, but I'm not paralyzed by the thought of failure or letting my kids needs take precedence over my own. Can you say the same?

naturegirl49 said...

First time posting here, but brought out of the lurking woodwork to say: I am so disappointed in you, athiest in a mini van!

I've been so impressed, when reading many of your past posts, by what an exceptional parent you seem to be. The thought has often crossed my mind that if only more parents were like you the world would be a much better place, with happier, more self-aware and confident children ready to enter adulthood.

And yet, here you are - explaining yourself to this strange little man?

It's just wrong!
I hope it's just a momentary bit of tiredness, or something, on your part.

As to the original topic, I wanted to say your comments mirrored my own thoughts.

While Professor Beckwith's conversion may have evolved "...quietly", it's very convenient that it didn't stay quiet. Book sales will no doubt be better with a bit of controversy to put his name in front of the eyes of the faithful.

Sara (sassy) said...

Hmmm...does anyone else find it very, very interesting that "John's" daughter goes to "school" (aka DAYCARE)? Because it would seem his wife isn't being a very good mother by putting her child in day care all day, now does it???

Sorry, had to feedt the troll. I'll stop wasting my time now....PM, I say ban the loser and don't let him post.

He's not worth the effort.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

First time posting here, but brought out of the lurking woodwork to say: I am so disappointed in you, athiest in a mini van!
I can't always live up to someone else's expectations. I'm human.


And yet, here you are - explaining yourself to this strange little man?

?? I don't quite understand why you're annoyed.
My parenting didn't change just because I decided to tell this guy where to stick his b/s.


It's just wrong!
I hope it's just a momentary bit of tiredness, or something, on your part.

What is "wrong"?
I was a bit tired and cranky, but I apologized before the comment for getting long-winded. Did I not?


As to the original topic, I wanted to say your comments mirrored my own thoughts.

While Professor Beckwith's conversion may have evolved "...quietly", it's very convenient that it didn't stay quiet. Book sales will no doubt be better with a bit of controversy to put his name in front of the eyes of the faithful.

I found it interesting that he's basically going to write a book about going from a belief in God to a belief in God. :) I mean, really? It's not even as if he went from Catholic, to atheist, to Catholic. :) I thought the term "reconversion" was funny.

rachel said...

Sara (sassy) said...

Hmmm...does anyone else find it
very, very interesting
that "John's" daughter goes
to "school" (aka DAYCARE)?

I did. I was wondering what kind of 'school' does a child young enough to sit in a high-chair attend? I don't think John is in a position to be passing judgement on others' parenting skills or styles when someone else is raising his child for 8 or 9 hours of her 12 hour day.

shaun said...

Hm. The psychologist diagnosing P-momma over the internets is kinda like Bill Frist diagnosing Terri Schiavo over the TV. There's something not quite right about that.

Oh, and this:
Possummomma is a depressed person who needs help. Her anger and venom are directed at the people she is most jealous of.

Textbook case of projection if there ever was one - I'm surprised the psychologist couldn't figure that one out...

Poodles Rule said...

John Said:

"My life belongs to God. I am but a vessel."

That must take an awful lot of lube, maybe I need to buy some stock in Astroglide.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

Thought I'd update all of you (who are reading the John chronicles) before I turn in for the night.

John, in the other forum, said you're all being "mean and angry" toward him. We just don't understand him. *rolls eyes* I think he's taken his toys and gone home. YAY!

Saurian200 said...

Possummomma,

John, in the other forum, said you're all being "mean and angry" toward him.

Gee, you supoose that might be because of all those accusations and insults he was throwing around?

Nah, it couldn't possibly be because of that. We wouldn't want to ruin his persecution complex by doing something mean like telling the truth, would we?

We just don't understand him.

He's got nobody to blame for that but himself. We asked him to explain himself and he didn't. What did he expect?

I think he's taken his toys and gone home. YAY!

Well, I guess that answers my question about whether he was actually here for a discussion or just to troll.

By the way, what forum is he on? I'm almost curious enough to check it out.

For anyone who's interested, I thing he's been to About's A/A section. This guy seem familier?

I could be wrong though.

AlisonM said...

Off topic, but on topic at the same time, I wonder how a conversion from Catholicism to Baptist and back to Catholicism brings one "full circle". It looks like point A to point B and back to point A to me. I mean, heck, he didn't even try more than one flavor of Christianity.

It's a lot easier to get a conversion story from someone who never really stopped being "faithful", though, because so few atheists convert back. (Plus, a lot who say they did were never really atheists at all - ahem - Kirk Cameron - ahem.)

John said...

I did. I was wondering what kind of 'school' does a child young enough to sit in a high-chair attend? I don't think John is in a position to be passing judgement on others' parenting skills or styles when someone else is raising his child for 8 or 9 hours of her 12 hour day.

Some people have to work.

shaun said...
Hm. The psychologist diagnosing P-momma over the internets is kinda like Bill Frist diagnosing Terri Schiavo over the TV. There's something not quite right about that.

Shaun you are missing the point. Possummomma is having a crisis of the spiritual.

Possummomma said...
John, in the other forum, said you're all being "mean and angry" toward him. We just don't understand him. *rolls eyes* I think he's taken his toys and gone home. YAY!

You won't get rid of me that easy.

God is the reason that life is what it is. Evidence for God can be found by looking at the miracle of life. In Him.

AlisonM said...

Oh, shoot. Went away to fold laundry, and he's back again.

John, point is, people who live in glass houses. . .looks like your daughter is with a parent for about 6 waking hours per day. Clearly, if P-Momma has 6 or more hours with her conscious children, she has no reason to feel guilty about a few minutes on the computer. What does your child do at "school"? She plays or rests or does nothing under the supervision of paid caregivers. The possums get to play, rest, or do nothing with companions of their own choosing under the supervision of a loving parent. You know what they say about people in glass houses, right?

Now this spiritual crisis thing is pretty absurd. A crisis usually causes severe distress, emotional upset, and often related physical symptoms. I know that, and I'm not even a psychologist. P-Momma doesn't seem any worse off emotionally than any woman with four kids, and certainly not like a person in the midst of a crisis. Her not believing in your god is no more a crisis for her than your not believing in Allah is a crisis for you. Some Muslim person could assert that you're in crisis with just as much validity. I think you're in crisis, too, and I think others would agree. Can you feel your heartbeat racing, sweat breaking out on your forehead, or any signs of severe anxiety because of that?

God is the reason that life is what it is. Evidence for God can be found by looking at the miracle of life. In Him.

Odin is the reason that life is what it is. Evidence is everywhere. Kali is the reason that people sometimes don't get along. You see the evidence every time you read the news. Persephone comes home to her mother for six months and down to Hades for the other six months - you can tell by watching the seasons change, it's obvious. You are SOOO not going to be feasting in Valhalla after Ragnarok, John. Doesn't that scare you?

The Music Won't Stop said...

I love it when people assume mothers spend all their time on the computer rather than raising their kids. I have been accused of this many times, all based on sporatic posts and quick replies I make throughout the day. Kids are amazingly independent, and really can function and have fun and even learn without a parent hovering over them.

Amazingly, they can do all these things without a God hovering over them as well.

Saurian200 said...

John,

Here we go again.

Shaun you are missing the point. Possummomma is having a crisis of the spiritual.

Again, why should we believe you when you say this. All you've given us so far is a claim that you're a psychologist but why should we believe that either?

Do you think you are a god? Are you expecting people to take what you say on faith?

God is the reason that life is what it is. Evidence for God can be found by looking at the miracle of life. In Him.

So, you don't have any evidence. You've just interpreted things one way. You can't or seemingly won't back up that interpretation, but still you get angry when others don't share that interpretation.

I would expect a lot better from a psychologist.

John said...

The possums get to play, rest, or do nothing with companions of their own choosing under the supervision of a loving parent.

"The possums" get to run wild. I've seen what happens when parents have lose rules and open relationships with their children. A parents job is to lay down the law and teach children that life is about rules. Freedom is earned like respect. All children need stability! If a little boy is allowed to make his own bedtime and eat when he wants how will he function in school? I would put dollars to donuts that her kids are on medication for ADD or ADHD.

A crisis usually causes severe distress, emotional upset, and often related physical symptoms.
She has many physical systems. Lupus is mostly in your head.

Can you feel your heartbeat racing, sweat breaking out on your forehead, or any signs of severe anxiety because of that?

No I do not. I am confident that my Lord will protect me.

You are SOOO not going to be feasting in Valhalla after Ragnarok, John. Doesn't that scare you?

I have the Bible to prove my God exists and has given us a law to live by. I've never even heard of Ragnorak.

I love it when people assume mothers spend all their time on the computer rather than raising their kids. I have been accused of this many times, all based on sporatic posts and quick replies I make throughout the day. Kids are amazingly independent, and really can function and have fun and even learn without a parent hovering over them.

Possummomma keeps this blog and is always on.

Saurian200 said...
John,

Here we go again.


You are the one who keeps it going Saurian.

Again, why should we believe you when you say this. All you've given us so far is a claim that you're a psychologist but why should we believe that either?

I have a degree from Liberty in Psyhology and Religious Studies. My ministry is in the criminal justice system. God called me. Do you wish me to scan my degree?

Do you think you are a god? Are you expecting people to take what you say on faith?

Of course I am not God. I am just a humble servant of the earth. I expect you to believe me based on your heart. If you listen you will see I'm trying to help you.

So, you don't have any evidence. You've just interpreted things one way. You can't or seemingly won't back up that interpretation, but still you get angry when others don't share that interpretation.

How can you ignore the Bible? It's the best evidence available. No one argues the authenticity of the Bible! It is the inspired word of the Lord. That counts for more than any science proof.

Possummomma. Since you gave my schedule to the world why don't you share yours? What do you do for discipline? You said you don't spank in the other forum. Spare the rod spoil the child. It worked for thousands of years and you just think you can chance it. I would like to point you to the Ezzo method. You could get Owen to bed at an hour that is fit for children. If he keeps eating at 10:00pm he could fall to obesity. You need to be the parent.

Chris said...

Liberty? As in, Liberty University?

If so, now I see why you're doing so poorly portraying yourself as a psychologist here.

Zoe said...

Oh, John...

Of course people argue the authenticity of the bible! For Pete's sake, man, it was written by humans! At the council of Nicea, which writings went into the thing got decided by committee! And we all know how well those run... And, surely you understand that the King James version (emphasis on version) is called that because King James didn't like the way some things were taught/portrayed in the bible, and he wanted it to cater to his personal/political agenda.

Yikes! No one questions the authenticity of the bible... Puhleeez

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

John,

You are someone who is winding us up right?

You can not be for real?

You are a practicing Psychologist yes? With how many years study? What professional orgnisations do you belong to?
What was the focus of your Degree in Psychology?

I am calling bullshit on you?

Atheist in a mini van. said...

Sean said: You are someone who is winding us up right?

You can not be for real?

You are a practicing Psychologist yes? With how many years study? What professional orgnisations do you belong to?
What was the focus of your Degree in Psychology?

John has been around for a few months on a moderated parenting livejournal/board that I'm on. I would LOVE to link if for you guys, but you wouldn't be able to see anything. :( All of the entries are filtered to include only those who join Livejournal (and the moderator is picky about who she allows in).

ANYWAY - I question John's credentials as well. For one, he's been journaling on that parenting journal/board for a while and he's NEVER mentioned his degree in psychology. He *is* a graduate of Liberty University, though. His wife started the parenting journal (she's a co-mod) and I know she talked about him being in school. Strangely, though, all I ever heard about was the religious studies degree. Plus, I'm not even sure it's legal to practice psychology with an undergrad (and that's what he claimed to have in an entry from last June). So, until John ponies-up with the last name so we can search the licensure boards... I call "bullshit".
Basically, John, we are telling you to put up or shut-up.
In response to John -
"The possums" get to run wild.
Not as much as you'd think. They have rules...they just have rules that make sense. And, interestingly enough; because they understand consequences, we rarely have issues wherein they "take a mile".

parents job is to lay down the law and teach children that life is about rules.
I completely disagree with you, John! A parent's job is to teach their child how to navigate life and make good decisions. Life isn't black and white; sometimes it's necessary to break the rules to be ethical or moral. On occasion, it can be necessary to break the rules to survive. A parent's job is to show their child how to assess a situation and formulate a plan.

All children need stability!
I agree. However, I think our definition of stability differs.

If a little boy is allowed to make his own bedtime and eat when he wants how will he function in school? I would put dollars to donuts that her kids are on medication for ADD or ADHD.

See! And, I think teaching a child to listen to their body's needs is paramount.
He'll function in school much like all the other children do, I suppose. He's two. He's hardly packing his things for Harvard.
And, since you brought it up; there's a glaring difference here between what our children "need". Your daughter has to adapt to a tight schedule because she's in daycare and you run a very tight ship at home. My kids, during the summertime, spend almost 100% of their time at home. Why should we come up with an arbitrary schedule? When the kids are hungry, they eat. We gather for lunch and dinner (or, at least, we make every effort to do so). Snacking is healthy. When they're tired, they sleep. When they're not tired, they don't.

She has many physical systems. Lupus is mostly in your head.

Are you fucking stupid?
Try doing some research before you make assinine comments.

I have the Bible to prove my God exists and has given us a law to live by. I've never even heard of Ragnorak.

The Bible doesn't "prove" your God. The Bible proves that someone wrote a book.

How can you ignore the Bible? It's the best evidence available. No one argues the authenticity of the Bible! It is the inspired word of the Lord.
Ummmm... did you just completely FAIL Christian Apologetics 101?
Why would there be an entire degree program for apologetics if no one had ever argued the authenticity of the Bible?

Possummomma. Since you gave my schedule to the world why don't you share yours?
Ok. The kids wake up. I parent them. Every day is new and different and we love it. The end.

What do you do for discipline?
Logical consequences.
Unlike you, I don't get steamed about kids that play with their food. If laundry doesn't make it to the hampers, it doesn't get washed - too bad, so sad for the person looking for their pink t-shirt. KWIM? If the chore chart says that your job is to set the table for dinner and you don't do it, you don't get your allowance for that chore and you'll most likely end up doing the duty of the person who did your job. It's not rocket science. Treat your child like they are human and they'll act like it!! You get what you give.

You said you don't spank in the other forum. Spare the rod spoil the child. It worked for thousands of years and you just think you can chance it. I would like to point you to the Ezzo method.
Yeah - you seem really well adjusted.
*rolls eyes*

You could get Owen to bed at an hour that is fit for children. If he keeps eating at 10:00pm he could fall to obesity. You need to be the parent.

I could, but why is it absolutely critical? And, FYI, in a strange turn of events, he decided to crawl on my husband's lap at 9pm and fell asleep... he didn't wake up at 10. I guess he was satiated and tired.
And... I don't think there's any fear of obesity. He's busy, busy, busy. If you let them exercise, they burn calories, John. New concept, I know...go slowly. Rather than your wife putting Amy in the stroller, why don't you take her to the park with a beach ball and play with her? Or, let her walk and you guys follow her lead?! I swear to you that it won't lead to a toddler mutiny.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

Sauri (SORRY is more like it) you can call me what you will. I'm not a troll. I respond when the question is worth a response.

OMG this is soooo funny! Chuck in the Psychology, you have a career in stand-up.

The Music Won't Stop said...

"Possummomma keeps this blog and is always on. "


LOL. I run three blogs and two online RPGs. I'm also a writer/editor and a graphic artist. That means my laptop is almost never off (except to cool down), on my lap or under my arm, and I'm on it every moment I get the chance. I still have time to play with the kids, get the older one to do his "homework", and make them three meals a day. Oh, and the house is clean too!

Poodles Rule said...

Liberty University isn't a real school so based on that alone I call Bullshit!

AlisonM said...

Bwahahaha! Too funny. A degree from Liberty University is almost as prestigious as an AA from a Community College! And an undergrad degree in Psychology from anywhere does not make you a psychologist by any means.

Now, I'm normally a nice, calm person - I can even debate controversial subjects with people who hold opposing views quite civilly in person. But you know, sometimes things just get my dander up.

"The possums" get to run wild. I've seen what happens when parents have lose rules and open relationships with their children. A parents job is to lay down the law and teach children that life is about rules.

Children's job is to play and learn. They learn far less from a precisely structured environment than they do from one in which they are encouraged to think for themselves and creatively explore. They learn more about social interaction from interacting and problem-solving than they do from enforced adult rules. Time with other kids, time to do what they want and find out who they are is in no way equivalent to "running wild". And if they are "running wild", but happy, and doing no harm to anyone, what is wrong with that?

Then you said this:
would put dollars to donuts that her kids are on medication for ADD or ADHD.
and this:
Lupus is mostly in your head.


So now I'm really riled up. I've had ADD since it was called "mental deficiency disorder" - i.e., back before it was popular. My brother as well. Plus my uncle, and possibly my grandmother. I'd like to see you popped into an ADD brain for just an hour and still be able to think it's made-up whiny baby stuff. Same for Lupus - I've known people with it, and I've watched them go through real-life illness that is testable, quantifiable, diagnosable. . .in short, a real honest to goodness physical immune disorder. Did they include ADD and Lupus in your Bible-based DSM at Liberty School of Giving Money to Pat Robertson? Did they teach you how to cure them by laying on hands and speaking in tongues? If you're going to make absolute pronouncements, you should be ready to provide conclusive support. I'm pretty darn sure that I know more about ADD and P-Momma knows more about Lupus than you could ever learn.

I have the Bible to prove my God exists and has given us a law to live by. I've never even heard of Ragnorak.

And Scientologists have "Dianetics" to prove that Xenu exists, and Hindus have the Vedas to prove that Brahma and Shiva and Parvati and so on exist, and the Quran proves Allah exists, and the Eddas prove Odin and Freya and Thor exist. The bible carries just as much weight of proof as any of those. When you can come up with something that proves the bible is right without also proving the written theosophies of all the other religions right at the same time, let everyone know. Ragnarok, by the way, is the end of the world in the Norse mythology. They have rewards for believers and punishment for nonbelievers, too. Valhalla sounds a lot more fun than heaven, if we get to pick our own imaginary afterlife.

Saurian200 said...

John,

You are the one who keeps it going Saurian.

Neither I nor anyone else is forcing you to stay.

I have a degree from Liberty in Psyhology and Religious Studies. My ministry is in the criminal justice system. God called me. Do you wish me to scan my degree?

As I've already said, just having a degree isn't the same as supporting what you say.

When scientists make a claim about the world they provide support. They explain their position in detail, present suporting evidence and perform experiments to support their claim. They don't just say, "I have adegree in chemistry therefore I'm right.

You aren't being asked to do that much. You are only being asked to provide some kind of support. Instead you keep pointing to a degree as if that means anything. If you have a degree then you shouls bd expected to understand the topic at hand and both explain or support it.

If over the course of your education this was never explained to you then your degree probably isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

When people ask you for support you need to do a lot more than just point to a piece of paper from Jerry Falwell's diploma mill.

Of course I am not God. I am just a humble servant of the earth.

Then stop expecting us to believe what you say just because you're the one saying it.

Saying, "I have a degree in psychology therefore everthing I say is the unquestionable truth," is not humble at all.

I expect you to believe me based on your heart.

My heart pumps blood. It has no basis on what I believe.

If you listen you will see I'm trying to help you.

I have been listening and that is why I say with full confidence that no, you are not here to help anyone except maybe yourself and your own ego.

Hurling insults, dodging questions, and making unsupported accusations doesn't help people in any concevable ways.

Maybe, in your head, you do have good motivations, but good motivations don't always translate into good actions. Basically, good iontentions aren't always good enough.

If you are trying to help us then ask yourself:

1. Is what you are doing actually helping.

2. If you think you are helping us, then what your experience here or our reactions to you makes you think that?

3. If you don't think that, then why are you continuing to act in the same fasion?

How can you ignore the Bible? It's the best evidence available. No one argues the authenticity of the Bible!

If you want to be taken seriously then you have to drop the hyperbole. When you say things like this it suggests that you don't know what your talking about.

Every non-Christian on the planet disputes the authority of the Bible, if they didn't, there would be far more Christians then there are now.

Even if we were to accept the bible as truth, which I, Possummomma, as well as many others don't, there is still the problem of figuring out what the book says in the first place. Even christians can't agree on that.

If there is so much disagreement between not only non-believers but also believers about what the bible even says, then how can it be considered reliable evidence let alone authoritative?

It is the inspired word of the Lord.

That's what you say but why should we agree with you?

That counts for more than any science proof.

Until you can verify it's accuracy then no, it does not count for more than scientific evidence.

And, yes, it's scientific evidence, not proof. Mathmatics deals with proof, not science. That might seem like a nitpick but it does suggest that you don't understand science very well.

What that means is it casts doubt on both your statement about what is and is not better than scientific evidence as well as how much that degree you keep touting is really worth.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

And Ringers have Lord of the Rings to prove that 'There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Il├║vatar... exists.