Tuesday, July 10, 2007

Christian Domestic Discipline

Since we covered infant/toddler spanking in the previous post's comment section, I thought I'd bring up a site I found a while back.
Christian Domestic Discipline

What is "Christian Domestic Discipline", you might ask? From the website:
"A domestic discipline marriage is one in which one partner in the marriage is given authority over the other and has the means to back the authority, usually by spanking.
A Christian Domestic Discipline marriage is one that is set up according to Biblical standards; that is, the husband is the authority in the household. The wife is submissive to her husband as is fit in the Lord and her husband loves her as himself. He has the ultimate authority in his household, but it is tempered with the knowledge that he must answer to God for his actions and decisions. He has the authority to spank his wife for punishment, but in real CDD marriages this is taken very seriously and usually happens only rarely. CDD is so much more than just spanking. It is the husband loving the wife enough to guide and teach her, and the wife loving the husband enough to follow his leadership. A Christian marriage embodies true romance and a Christian man a true hero."
I just have to ask, "why?" Why is it absolutely necessary for one partner (in this case, the husband) to have "authority" over the other partner? Two, able-minded and able-bodied adults, in a loving, mature relationship shouldn't need to hold "authority" over each other. And, I truly don't understand how spanking becomes part of the formula for long-term nuptual happiness.
Where, in the Bible, does it say to spank your wife? I know that there's some misogynistic b/s in there,... but, I don't recall the chapter and verse where a man is given permission to flog his wife for the purpose of keeping his authority secure. *rolls eyes*
The part that I bolded, for emphasis, is the part that really chaps my hide. When the hell did spousal abuse become a symbol of the husband's "love for his wife"?? Seriously, people!! This has "Lifetime Movie of the Week" written all over it. And, I wonder how well this justification would hold up in a court of law?
Husband on trial: "But, your Honor! She agreed that I'm the master of my domain. I beat her because I love her."
If your manhood is so precarious that you need to exert your dominance onto a woman, then you aren't much of a man. If your idea of love is pushing your wife under your armpit so that you can beat her into submission, then you have a twisted view of love. And, since when do GROWN WOMEN need to be disciplined in such a manner?
If two people want to get their groove on and do a little light S&M, then I'll not stand in their way. This, however, is all about power! UNEQUAL POWER.
Just when you think that this can't get much worse,...it does. It delivers the suck like a Hoover vacuum cleaner.
"Not all domestic discipline relationships use spanking as the only consequence or even as a consequence at all. Some couples prefer other punishments; such as, writing lines, corner time, and grounding. Some couples pair these other punishments with spanking. "
Writing lines? Corner time? Grounding? Mmmmmmmkay. These people have more issues than National Geographic.
Most domestic discipline couples practice some form of spanking, which seems to come in three categories: play spanking, maintenance spanking, and punishment spanking.
Oh yay! We've categorized the domestic violence into cute little sub-categories. *frown*
Couples point out that play spanking reinforces the roles in the relationship, reminds the submissive partner of harsher consequences should they misbehave, and allows the feelings of dominance and submissiveness without the emotional upset of a “real” spanking.
"Bow to your sensei!! I said "BOW!"." *rolls eyes*
Play spanking is usually light and without much pain for the submissive partner. It is sometimes referred to as a “good girl spanking”.
Is it just me...or did this just get a bit naughty (in a sexual sort of way)? Is this really just a cover for those proclivities that Christians would rather not admit to?
Maintenance spanking is a bit more serious. It is usually administered at regular intervals in the relationship and its purpose might be to punish small infractions over a period of time, remind the submissive to behave, reinforce roles in the relationship, remind the submissive of harsher consequences should they misbehave, and allow the feelings of dominance and submissiveness in the relationship. It is a real spanking, though not usually as harsh as a punishment spanking.
Maintenance spanking? You've got to be fucking kidding me! Is the woman a human or a Mazda?! So, basically, even if the woman is doing a great job of being a wife and mother, this allows the man to keep her in her place - and get his freak on. Nice.
Punishment spankings (or discipline spankings) are the most dreaded of the three. Given for an infraction or misbehavior by the submissive, they are usually severe and cause a substantial amount of pain. A specific type of punishment spanking that is considered the most severe of all is called AAAC, or Avoid At All Costs. This is a spanking that is severe in nature, causes great distress and most usually tears for the recipient, and is crafted to be memorable and cause deep regret in the heart of the submissive. Even submissives who claim to “like” to be spanked usually say they do not like punishment spankings, which are sometimes called “bad girl spankings”.
Do I really have to comment?

38 comments:

Autonomous said...

I slap my wife on the rear fairly often, but these people are freaks! Wow. That last part is scary-"is crafted to be memorable and cause deep regret in the heart of the submissive." Brrrr. So it is the man's Christian duty to craft a punishment that will emotionally scar his wife?

Poodles Rule said...

*giggle* I have books and movies about this kind of thing, but they aren't serious. I didn't know that "true christians" were so kinky. Shoot, maybe I'll have to convert, my husband and I both like a good spanking. ;)

lynn's daughter said...

Uh, no, but I will. What kind of partnership is based on a wife who is treated like a child? What kind of "man" would actually enjoy having a partner that is not his equal, or be able to respect her at all? From everything my husband has shared with me about his feelings on our marriage, one of the things he treasures about it the most is that I am an equal, and therefore a confident and true friend. Now, having said that, I like a pat on the rump at "certain timeS" as much as the next person...but time out? This sounds like a recipe for disaster and a relationship that could (and would) descend into an abusive hell.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

I am waiting for John, our "Christian Psychologist" to rock up and give us some insight on this.

Eight Hour Lunch said...

Spanking and groping. They missed groping, and the fact that it should go both ways. :)

Actually, part of the Mormon temple ceremony used to be the wife pledging obedience to her husband. I don't think I saw that work out on a practical level in any of the relationships around me.

Then again, I'm not too proud to hand Heidi my pants and let her wear them, too. Spanking and groping to follow... ;)

AlisonM said...

I've seen that site, but I really think they need to add a clothing and accessories catalogue, if you know what I mean. . .

Yep, it sure is good to be a Christian if you're a man who likes to abuse and subjugate women and children!! Woohoo!

Cogito said...

Wow. You know, reading that reminded me of two things: The Pearl, and The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty. For the uninitiated, they are both extremely explicit pieces of literature, featuring (in the former) ample flogging scenes and (in the latter) an elaborate domination/submission relationship, in which the woman is owned by the man, and he is charged with "educating" her.

In other words, this seems to me either a Christian veneer used as an excuse for couples into extreme domination and submission, or perhaps merely a paraphilia resulting from brutal suppression and perversion of normal sexual drives. (Note that The Pearl was published in Victorian England, notorious for such suppression.)

I'd say, "Whatever floats your boat," except I worry about children raised in these households, where this stuff may be taught openly, rather than being private sexual play. I shudder to think of the messages being inculcated into little girls. It's one thing to have a kink, and find someone to share it with. It's another thing not to have it, but be taught that you must submit to it. Yech.

Poodles Rule said...

Coginito:

Also, a little bit of "The story of O" in there too.

The best part of that is the "Sleeping Beauty" series was written by Anne Rice who has recently found "christ".

HA!

Zoe said...

HAHAHAHA!!!! Anne Rice and her xian erotica! I worked in a bookstore for about 3 years, and we had great fun creating lists of potential names for those! I'll see if I can find that old e-mail... I think many of you would get a heck of a kick.... as it were.

Zoe said...

Found it! Here, in its entirety, is the e-mail from my wonderful, beloved, independent bookstore in, if you can believe it, Grand Rapids, Michigan, headquarters of Christian Reformed Church (Dutch), Itn'l.

Such creative folks at that bookstore.... *sigh*

"Since anne has gone over to the other side and written a work of christian fiction. We back in the break room were casting around ideas. If she were to write a work of christian erotica what would she call certain "unmentionables".

An unwrapped falafel
two fishes and a loaf bread
jugs of wine
ripe pomegranites
cupping the figs
looking up the grape leaves
the crusty loaf
milking the camel
eating the last supper
his mighty staff
camel lingus
shearing the ewe
nailing the cross
sermon about the mount
a cristo sanchez
judas sandwich


Proposing her first Christian erotica book as Anne Rambling: The Claiming of Mary Magdalene with Fabio-esque Jesus tearing at Mary's gaping burka with camels and a blazing sunset on the sand....

D Kitty said...

OK, I have to comment.

This deffinately sounds like 24/7 Lifestyle Master/slave (or Dominate/submissive). It seems to me that its just a cover for people who cannot come to terms with themselves.
I am agnostic. My Hubby is agnostic. And yes we are a 24/7 M/s (Master/slave) couple. It works for us.
But we both know ourselves and feel no need to cover who we are with the "i do this because the bible says i have to" crap.
This is also a good cover for the abusive.
There's a reason BDSMers' motto is "SAFE, SANE, & CONSENSUAL".

Zoe said...

Okay, one more, and then I promise I'll shut up... I just had to go to this website, and for whomever mentioned it, they DO have a store! Complete with (are you ready?) crotchless pantaloons!
ROFLMAO

Poodles Rule said...

Zoe,
OMG those are hilarious. Let me add, "blown on a cross." Sorry I got carried away.

My husband and I went to an ice cream shop with some friends once. It was a Leatherbys incase any of you have one near by. They are "family friendly" but their titles for their ice cream creations could easly be porn titles. We sat reading the menu for about 1/2 hour making porn titles from the names and laughing. "Amys hot fudge sundae" was one I remember.

Sara (sassy) said...

Ummm, hell to the no!!

I think not! I am a grown woman and if you can't respect that and treat me as such, you aren't worth my time.

My husband and I are EQUAL partners in our marriage, the way it should be. No one has "power" over the other. *gag*

'Nuff said.

Russ said...

Just imagining myself as intentionally inflicting pain on my wife causes me great distress. Even more upsetting for me, however, would be what her allowing it would suggest about her psychological state: she would no longer be in possession of the amazing mental faculties that make her so attractive to me. Her towering intellect, rationality and reason, her sarcastic and sometimes cutting humor, her keen moral sense would all necessarily be greatly altered if their makeup, substance and character were shaped by me using violence to my personal specifications.

When I think that holding this mindset would also mean that my wife and I would then willfully inculcate our daughter to accept a future of powerlessness, subjugation, and abuse, I'm nearly ready to toss my cookies. My daughter is bright; she is quite talented musically; and, she has great character, confidence, and self-esteem. If we allowed ourselves to live under the curse of "domestic discipline," we would have to prepare our beloved daughter to give herself up to ritual abuse, and to reject anything about herself that her abuser would violently drive out.

Here, Daniel Dennett's book "Breaking the Spell," about the need to scientifically study religion comes to mind. As religion takes one of its many detestable practices out for a stroll, we can hold it to the light of social norms and human reason and expose it for the cruel immoral act that it is. Religion is immoral and it does poison everything.

Carla said...

This is sanctioned abuse that's all there is to it. freaks!

The Music Won't Stop said...

My husband wouldn't want me if I were submissive to him. And if he tried to dominate me in such a way, I would leave him in a heartbeat, and take his children with me. Hell, if he were to ever lay a hand on me, I would press charges. Not that he ever would. He respects me.

What is scary is the assumption that men are automatically superior to women, and that women--FULL GROWN ADULTS--are simple-minded and need to be "taught" and punished. Punished!? What on earth is she punished for? Not getting the dishes done on time? Any man that feels he must punish his wife for any reason has serious control issues.

Cogito said...

Having thought about it, I wonder if this is a joke after all. God I hope so.

The music won't stop's comment made me reflect that my husband would also reject the dominant role. I don't think either of us could ever be a top, just from endless iterations of this conversation: "Where should we go for dinner?" "I don't know, you choose," "No, I don't care, you pick" and so on. :)

Hugo said...

Just one point, don't link the Zoroastrian God to these christian wackos!!!

:-)

PerpetualBeginner said...

I've seen these sites several times before and they never fail to make me feel ill.

As to my relationship, my husband is far too self-confident to feel he has to mash me into some constrained boundary to maintain his "superiority". Plus, he's met my grandmother. She who avoided a descent into an abusive relationship by telling her new husband on day one (She'd been railroaded into the marriage) "The day you lay a hand on me in violence is the last day you will dare shut your eyes in this house." And then managed to get herself loose a few years later in a day and age when divorce just wasn't done.

Somehow submissiveness has never been a watchword in the women in my family. Not to husbands, not to God, not to anyone.

DivaFFS said...

i guess it would be funny if they didn't admit to the fact that this is erotic... and they didn't say on the first page that a man has a god-given right to hit his wife no matter what but that because of some stupid domestic abuse laws they have to limit their site's stated target audience to consenting couples...wink, wink.

Non-consensual CDD:

Though we believe the Bible gives a husband the authority to use spanking as one tool in enforcing his authority in the home with or without his wife's permission, in today's world we recognize the legality that mandates that all CDD must be consensual. Therefore we will do not condone nonconsensual CDD as a rule.

D Kitty said...

There's "consensual" because it's what gets you off and then there's "consensual" because some ancient dude with a voice in his head said you must submit.

robd said...

I suppose Taliban Domestic Dicipline
would be very similar.

Religion is not only man-made but also men-made.

erin said...

I just showed this to my husband, who nearly fell over with laughter at what would happen if he tried this in our house. In fact, I once made a joke about him wearing the pants, and he was very offended that I'd even consider one of us to be dominant. I suppose he should've spanked me for my disrespect.

Alyx said...

I, too, thought this was nothing more than "Christian" BDSM, a way to get kinky or have a M/s relationship that isn't regarded as "sexually perverted." I especially thought that when I saw the product list with the crotchless bloomers. And have you read any of the excerpts from their "fiction" section? It seemed to be nothing more than Christian Kink.

And then I saw the article in the "For the Husband" section that talks about "spanking your rebellious daughters."

No. Just... no. ANY ethical BDSM relationship KEEPS THE KIDS OUT OF IT. This is abuse, pure and simple.

TulipGrrl said...

I have never, ever met a Christian involved with that kind of stuff, or one who takes it seriously. While I'm sure they exist, it's so far on the far-out-in-neverland-fringe that it really isn't accurate to even link it with Christianity.

That said, I do think there is a link between spousal "discipline"/abuse and child abuse. This article talks about Islamic wife-beating and Christian child-beating.

amarullis said...

I have a feeling that many women are coerced into participating in this (and even nonviolent "husband is the ruler" ways of marriage). It is not consensual if the woman is told her family's immortal souls are at risk if she doesn't comply
The bible is full of crap about men ruling over women. For example, if a man rapes a woman, he can pay her father off, marry her, but can't ever divorce her (and she lives with her attacker for the rest of her life).
It makes me wonder how any woman could be a Christian.

Nicholas said...

Some people think this is like domestic violence? That's because it IS domestic violence! When I read that site, I felt physically ill.

ESCartist said...

I think D_kitty is right on the money here...

Or maybe I've been in the Bay Area too long that I don't find 24/7 D/s relationships odd.

(Although I do find the 'Christian rationalization' of what is one of the kinkier alternative lifestyles quite amusing... and I do hope the 'safe, sane and consensual' still applies.)

ESCartist said...

ROFL- d_kitty... I just read the name of your blog.

My good friend, who is now in a healthy D/s relationship, also has, and lets just say she's found her cat fills the Dom roll quite naturally as well;)

That's why I don't do cats... The last thing I need is a battle of wills with my pet;)

Saurian200 said...

Nicholas,

Some people think this is like domestic violence? That's because it IS domestic violence! When I read that site, I felt physically ill.

To be fair, there's nothing more like domestic violence than domestic violence. So the comparison is apt I suppose.

Daisy said...

I saw this a few weeks ago and posted the website link on one of the message boards I frequent.

And on the 8th day God approved BDSM, as long as it follows the doctrine of Christian Domestic Discipline.

God sayeth unto man: "Go forth, and beat your wife so that she may be degraded before you. And you shall hold domination over your household, for unto you is the responsibility to keep her in line. Remember that nasty snake incident?"

As for the lingerie, who needs Agent Provocateur when you can have Edwardian knickers?

twincats said...

They have crotchless bloomers?? Drat, I had to make my own.

No, I'm not into b & d, my husband and I do historical reenacting (Ren faire, anyone?) and crotchless bloomers make trips to the privy much easier when I'm in costume. They're not historically correct for Renaissance wear (historically correct would be to wear *nothing* at all underneath, but I get chafed doing that) but then, I don't go round pulling my skirts up, so no one's the wiser.

The crotchless bloomers also drive my husband wild, so I have a hard time reconciling such titillating undergarments to a "Christian" movement.

At least the Christian swingers are up-front!
http://www.libchrist.com/swing/happysafestudies.html

Burning Prairie said...

A couple of weeks ago I posted at http://burningprairie.vox.com/ about Xian swimwear sites I had found and have been researching other kinds of Xian-specific clothing since for a new post. I looked up the crotchless Jesus panties and will be referencing it my upcoming post. And I will be giving be you due credit for turning me on to these freaks. I am an Ex-baptist of the southern variety and I. Had. No. Idea! I especially liked the day dresses specifically designed to make a woman look like a toddler. Are these people closet pedarests or what?! I don't believe I'd be inviting them to teach Sunday School.

lori b said...

I stumbled upon your blog because I was looking up more information on CDD. I am a pastor's wife and I just want to say that both my husband and myself had NEVER heard of such a horrendous thing until one day I somehow stumbled upon the page (looking something else up--OF COURSE).

All I wanted to do was explain that this is IN NO WAY reflective of the Christian church today. What we have here is a select group of people who, in my opinion, need extensive therapy. My pastor husband has never laid a hand on me...whether or not I'm wearing my crotchless pantaloons.

I'm kidding about the last part, by the way, those things kind of make me ill just to look at.

I'm very sorry that a group of "Christians" has made the entire faith a laughing stock.

lori b said...

I stumbled upon your blog because I was looking up more information on CDD. I am a pastor's wife and I just want to say that both my husband and myself had NEVER heard of such a horrendous thing until one day I somehow stumbled upon the page (looking something else up--OF COURSE).

All I wanted to do was explain that this is IN NO WAY reflective of the Christian church today. What we have here is a select group of people who, in my opinion, need extensive therapy. My pastor husband has never laid a hand on me...whether or not I'm wearing my crotchless pantaloons.

I'm kidding about the last part, by the way, those things kind of make me ill just to look at.

I'm very sorry that a group of "Christians" has made the entire faith a laughing stock.

Anonymous said...

I can't wait to see xtian spanking-fetish porn.

"Who's your Daddy?" he said ominously.

"The Lord our Father," she yelped as the cat-o-nie tails whispered across her innocent, lily-white buttocks.

Jeb, FCD

camila said...

We practice Domestic Discipline in our home. This has nothing to do with BDSM and a lot to do with complete love and respect. There certains rules which I have to follow and in return I get a great loving relationship.
NO fights, NO moodiness... just a very strong bond between us.
Our Blog