Sunday, June 24, 2007

Sellin' babies riles the righteous.

Wow! Via e-mail...
Dear Atheist-in-a-minivan.
I am requesting that you take down the link to that awful website. You are driving people to these horrible parents and accusing very good people of being hipocrates. I don't give money to terrorists and that is what these people are. They're holding the life of an innocent to the flames and telling me it's my responsibility. I've stood outside clinics and taken responsiblity for the lives of babies sent to the gallows. I have done my duty to god and the cause of life. The baby would be better off aborted if it is going to end up with parents like this. I donate money to organizations and like to help people I can look in the eye face to face. I don't deal with anonymous terrorists who hold babies hostages. I am not a hipocrite because I don't want to play games with babies lives. I donate money to crisis centers for pregnancy and do my part. May God be merciful and take this baby back to his loving arms. Theres probably no baby anyway.
John Raybenhaus

Hello John,... let's take this one sentence at a time, shall we?
I am requesting that you take down the link to that awful website.
Your request has been considered and denied.

You are driving people to these horrible parents and accusing very good people of being hipocrates.
I'm not so sure that these people are horrible parents. They've considered their position; Considered their emotions and financial limitations; Made a plan (however ill-received it is); and requested assistance. That hardly meets the criteria for "horrible parent". I think that they are, perhaps, acting unethically... but, is it also not unethical to suggest what you're about to suggest?

I don't give money to terrorists and that is what these people are. They're holding the life of an innocent to the flames and telling me it's my responsibility.
Terrorists? Really, John? They haven't told you it's your responsibility. They've said, "These are our constraints and our choices. Can you help?" If your answer is "no, I wont" or "no, I can't", then acknowledge YOUR limitations and move along.

I've stood outside clinics and taken responsibility for the lives of babies sent to the gallows. I have done my duty to god and the cause of life. So, you've stood outside of clinics and saved all the lives you're wiling to save. Whoop-de-frickin-do, for you. So...when you clock out and go back to your warm little nest, your duty to your God and, what was it again, "the cause of life" is officially done? Does it work on a check system, like the card you get at the supermarket for buying $50 worth of groceries? Do you put a little check down each time you talk someone out of abortion (or scare them out of an abortion...anything for the cause, right?)? How many checks, officially, gets you off "gallow duty"?

The baby would be better off aborted if it is going to end up with parents like this.
(This is the SECOND exchange I've had in which this has been said....wtf?)
Okay...what a minute. Did you really just say that? "The baby would be better off aborted..."?
This is almost too perfect. Thank you, Mr. Raybenhaus, for illustrating the hypocrisy of this situation in ways in which I would've never been able to expose. You are making the argument that not only is abortion okay...but, that it's tolerable at your discretion. To be quite frank, this hoax/experiment/solicitation (whatever it is) has challenged you to put a value on a pregnancy and you've said, "What the fuck? I'm not paying for this kid....not my responsibility. In fact, KILL IT!" *hands you the Holy Mother of Fuck Hypocrite Award of 2007*

. I donate money to organizations and like to help people I can look in the eye face to face.
Ok. So, your neighbor comes to you and says, "I need $50,000 or I'm afraid I will have to have an abortion."....do you pull out your checkbook and write "Fifty thousand dollars and xx." over your Precious Moments checks? Again... you win the prize for the biggest hypocrite in the universe because, in your zeal to sound compassionate, you've basically said that you care more about the pregnancies, mothers, and babies, that you see around you than you care about the equality of all life. It's a variant of NIMBY (not in my back yard).

I don't deal with anonymous terrorists who hold babies hostages.
Are you sure your last name isn't Bush?

I am not a hipocrite because I don't want to play games with babies lives. I donate money to crisis centers for pregnancy and do my part.
If you're one of those assholes in front of Planned Parenthood with a picture of a dead baby (on a stick), then you're not only playing games with people's lives, but you're also skirting the rank of "terrorist" for yourself! You'll play games with babies lives...you just don't want to lose any of your retirement fund to do it. You'll goad a scared fourteen year old into bearing a child that she can't afford. Or, you'll bully a kid into carrying a pregnancy so that YOU can feel all warm and fuzzy on adoption day, but... it's all good because you never have to deal with the actual fallout. It doesn't hurt you or your pocketbook. You go to sleep every night, smug in the satisfaction that you've saved some babies - you just casually forget that you manipulated the life of the young woman who's pregnant to please the whim of your God or your church (or your screwed up ethics).

If these parents courted other couples who wanted to "buy their baby", you'd have absolutely zero problem with it. Hell, you've probably handed out fliers that show them how to do it. The truth is that you don't have a problem with someone buying a baby, or using a baby,...you're just pissed because these people are putting a price on their own fetuses head before you had a chance to do it for them.

May God be merciful and take this baby back to his loving arms. Theres probably no baby anyway.
Uh huh... I think that speaks for itself.

41 comments:

Milo Johnson said...

It's spelled "Hippocrates." Although I fail to see what that has to do with anything...

Virginia aka Ginny said...

Pmomma you rock. I love how you cut right down to the quick of the matter.

Kazim said...

What's wrong with accusing people of being Hippocrates anyway? He was a good guy, and it's a very important oath he wrote.

steelcobra said...

I was about to say something about you accusing people of being a 3rd century BCE greek doctor, but two already beat me to it.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

I was about to say something about you accusing people of being a 3rd century BCE greek doctor, but two already beat me to it.

Did I mispell the word? I just copy/pasted John's e-mail.

I guess I didn't catch his slip. LOL

Milo Johnson said...

You're pretty good. I wouldn't come back to read your posts if you weren't. There's enough good thinking in blogs that I can find interesting reading written in actual English instead of a hideous caricature of it. I assumed that was a C&P of the original, it seems a startlingly high percentage of those folks have some serious literacy deficiencies. Probably the result of only reading one book, and selectively at that.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

Damn it, jokes been done to death.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

9 punch combo PM, remind me not to get on your bad side.

"Perfect Victory"

Atheist in a mini van. said...

I assumed that was a C&P of the original, it seems a startlingly high percentage of those folks have some serious literacy deficiencies. Probably the result of only reading one book, and selectively at that.


I'm usually not one to pick on spelling or grammar, because (as has been pointed out before) I frequently take license of the freedom to make up new words or catastrophically err grammatically. :)

9 punch combo PM, remind me not to get on your bad side.
It's been a tough week... I'm touchy. If I had a uterus or ovaries, I'd blame it on PMS. As I have none of the above, I'll blame it on bad joo-joo for the week. Plus, I think I'm bored. As my hubby will tell you, I can get polemic and cranky when I'm bored.

Virginia aka Ginny said...

Heh, one of the first things Russell aka Kazim said when he saw the spelling error, was "Damn! Someone already beat me to it!" And now Sean is doing the same thing...lol too funny.

Rev. BigDumbChimp said...

I don't give money to terrorists and that is what these people are. They're holding the life of an innocent to the flames and telling me it's my responsibility.

ok

I've stood outside clinics and taken responsiblity for the lives of babies sent to the gallows.

I wonder if John has supported any of the groups that led to Doctors being shot or Clinics bombed?

phewd said...

In a case of "You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't," say a mother is goaded into giving her child up for adoption, and later on in life she decides that she wants to have the child and persues legal action to obtain it. Sure, there may have been a legal, contractual obligation to do no such thing, but there are lawyers who will crawl through the deepest piles of shit to fine the tiniest loophole. Now all parties are monitarily and emotionally invested in a huge shit storm that the adoptive parents didn't want to be a part of. There are instances of this being the case.

I dunno - I think abortion, though a horrid reality, should still be an option. We should educate our youth enough that hopefully this isn't a decision they'll have to make in the future.

Carlie said...

If he really thinks that standing outside a clinic is taking responsibility for any babies, then he has no concept of what the word responsibility means.
Very good smackdown, p-momma.

Jess Wundrun said...

Thank you, Mr. Raybenhaus, for illustrating the hypocrisy of this situation in ways in which I would've never been able to expose. You are making the argument that not only is abortion okay...but, that it's tolerable at your discretion. To be quite frank, this hoax/experiment/solicitation (whatever it is) has challenged you to put a value on a pregnancy and you've said, "What the fuck? I'm not paying for this kid....not my responsibility. In fact, KILL IT!" *hands you the Holy Mother of Fuck Hypocrite Award of 2007*


Priceless.

Andrew said...

Very nice...

Why is it that Christians that lurk on these blogs can't seem to spell hypocrisy or hypocrites? It's almost ironick (hehe)...

Russ said...

PMomma,

Fun, fun, fun! Great analysis and writing like this post is the raw material of bestsellers. You've got the stuff. I envision a new star in the atheist constellation: Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, Hitchens, and Possummomma.

I know you're presently preoccupied with parenting possums and pummeling the pious, but I hope one day to find "PMomma's Guide to Kicking the Shit Out of Religious Idiots: A Homespun How-To To Hammering Hypocrites" at Barnes and Noble. I'd guess this post was about a thousand words. String a couple hundred of these together, stick in a few conjunctions and maybe a gerund or two, and the world is your oyster.

That distincive PMomma style and voice make your message accessible, and, to be sure, one of atheism's most significant public relations problems is that of accessibility. It's quite true that most atheists have a surplus of IQ points relative to the run of the mill Joe Friendly, but it's also quite true, as well as quite unfortunate, that many of those same atheists in discussions with the religious, seem to think they can with effect employ every single one of those IQ points as an instrument of influence, a trap, a weapon, an instrument of torture, or a pointy-barbed pejorative.

Many of these denizens of the intellectual stratosphere seem not to understand that the reasoning, ideas, arguments, metaphors, and even the vocabulary they bring to bear in their writings and conversations, being largely absent from their interlocutors, renders much of that mental wherewithal useless for clearly expressing ideas and possibly changing minds. You, by comparison, are not like that.

Though you are one of those inhabitants of that intellectual stratosphere, PMomma, you continually demonstrate the ability to communicate your ideas quite seemlessly up and down the broad intellectual spectrum. You exhibit a keen awareness that a 50 point IQ gap is, in practice, insurmountable, if you're on the downside straining up, but, from the upside, a bit of patience, sensitivity and a temporary tempo change from presto to andante, or even adagio, on the IQ metronome, can come close to bridging that gap. You've made that effort many times here. You know where the hump in the bell curve is and you negotiate it effortlessly from tail to tail. You're easy to read; you're easy to comprehend; you're a marvelous ambassador for atheism.

JOHN R said...

I tried to talk to you privately and this is what I get. I should have known better.

Don't e-mail Atheist-in-a-van!

Sara (sassy) said...

Awwww, poor John. Gonna try and play the "poor martyred Christian" card? Doesn't work for anyone else..don't think it will work for you.

Pmomma's response to your self righteous and condescending email was spot on.

*snort*

Saurian200 said...

John,

I tried to talk to you privately and this is what I get. I should have known better.

I don't remember P-Momma ever garunteeing that emails would be kept private. If that's what you wanted it was your responsibility to tell her that you wanted your conversation kept private.

Many people consider emails to be a normal part of a a websites feedback and don't view them as private, so you should not have assumed that just because you communicated through email, that it meant she would have kept it between just the two of you.

Don't e-mail Atheist-in-a-van!

Grow up.

You could have used this oppurtunity to respond to what P-Momma wrote in response to your email. You could have defended or expanded upon your position.

Instead you whined like a five year old having a temper tantrum. If you want people to take you seriously you actually have to act serious. You didn't. Deal with it.

Terra said...

John,

Who should not email P-Momma? Anyone who wants to bitch and complain and not have her rebut? Well, I would agree with you there. But, that's about the only point I agree with you on.

What about a public blog made you think that if you were to send an email like yours that it should be kept "private"? I notice you don't defend any of your positions, just play the "poor pitiful me" card. Is this because you've re-thought some of your positions after PM responded? I know I would have. And, I know how ucky that can feel. Feeling like you're right and then having someone prove you wrong is never fun. However, if you would like people to just agree with you all the time, I suggest to you that this is not the place for it. As has been aptly shown by PM, Russ and others.

By the way, what does this sentence mean, because it makes no sense to me: "I've stood outside clinics and taken responsiblity (sic) for the lives of babies sent to the gallows." You've stood outside clinics and offered to adopt said babies? Because that, to me, would suggest "taking responsibility." If by that you mean "I've prayed for them and their souls." well, again...wrong crowd. We believe that prayer does NOTHING except maybe make the pray-er feel better about themselves.

Wait, you do donate money? Well, that's good. However, when you say "crisis centers for pregnancy" are we talking about the type that tell women that they're sinners and there's no hope for them if they choose abortion? Or are we talking about the type that offer support, no matter the circumstances? If I had to guess, I bet I'd get it right. If it's the former, again, saying you're "doing your part" would be much rejected by the majority of readers of this blog.

In short: not the place for this kind of vitriol.

PM: sorry for the long comment. and I echo and amen your point about abortion being ok at J's discretion. Amazing what happens when people start thinking about circumstances instead of thinking of the world in terms of absolute good/evil.

Terra said...

saurian: my apologies to you, as well, for basically saying the same thing. I was taking a long time to write my comment and should have checked to see if there were any others first.

JOHN R said...

Sauriann
I don't think any talk like this should be public. This whole blog should be taken donw for its blasphemy. AIAMV is the real hypocrite and yes I can spell. She has four kids and stands her saying she is pro choice. Why didn't she have an abortion if they are so great. AIAMV is part of the white conspiracy to have white babies while getting minorities to fall for the lie of abortion and choice.

No one on this site suprizes me. I don't know any atheists that can make a moral choice to save their life. They worship gods. Instead of worship to a savior we see them worship themself.

Allyson said...

It's spelled "surprise"

Why do you assume that having children automatically makes you "anti-choice"? I intend to have children someday, but I fully support a woman's decision to have an abortion . . . Your position confuses me. I assume that argument ties into your racism conspiracy theory. Oops, I'm white, so there's no way I could be in favor of white people getting abortions!

That's not the first time I've heard that conspiracy theory, and it never made sense to me. If I REALLY wanted to perpetrate racism, I think it would be more effective to convince minorities not to have abortions, and to have as many children as possible. Miniorities already have enough trouble earning a living wage; add a few kids into the mix, and your chances for social mobility are really limited, especially if you have them before you get a high school diploma or a college degree.

Virginia aka Ginny said...

No one on this site suprizes me

Interestingly you don't surprise any of us either.

The Music Won't Stop said...

Wait....You can't have kids AND be pro-choice? I thought being pro-choice meant giving women the right to CHOOSE. To choose abortion, to choose adoption, or to choose to keep their pregnancies/babies.

*sigh* I love the self-righteous. It's like watching a train wreck. So sad, yet you just can't look away.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

I don't think any talk like this should be public. This whole blog should be taken donw for its blasphemy.
Did you go to the Fundy School of Censorship or is that just a pipe dream of yours?

AIAMV is the real hypocrite and yes I can spell. She has four kids and stands her saying she is pro choice. Why didn't she have an abortion if they are so great.

Are you serious? I didn't have an abortion because I did not want one. But, I was happy in the knowledge that, if I had wanted it, the technology and access was there. I'm happy that the option is there for others.

AIAMV is part of the white conspiracy to have white babies while getting minorities to fall for the lie of abortion and choice.
Yep. You pegged me. I'm all about having the white babeez. In fact, Possum#4's hair is a bit darker than I'd like...where did I put that bottle of peroxide?
*end sarcasm* Again, are you serious? Please explain your rationale to the group - how is being pro-choice racism or genocide?

No one on this site suprizes me. I don't know any atheists that can make a moral choice to save their life.
Hey...look! I have a bottle full of prescription narcotics on my nightstand. I choose not to take the entire bottle at one time. Doing such would leave my children as wee motherless mongrels and that would be bad. Doing so would leave my husband with an incredible burden. Doing so would violate this feeling I have that says, "I really like to be alive."
There. You've just seen me make a "moral choice" to "save my life." Now you can pull the stick out of your ass that's been rendering your brain useless.

They worship gods. Instead of worship to a savior we see them worship themself.

...says the man who stands outside abortion clinics preaching to the scared masses.

canucklehead said...

Good grief, John! Your response was a little too scatterbrained for me, but I'll try to rebut your points as best I can.

This whole blog should be taken donw for its blasphemy. AIAMV is the real hypocrite and yes I can spell.

I'll overlook the lone spelling error, and just say that if you can spell, your sentence structure and grammar leave much to be desired. And as for the blog being taken down for "blasphemy," I believe there's this little thing you Americans have called "freedom of speech." I'm Canadian, so I'm not 100% sure. Anyone else willing to back me up on this?

She has four kids and stands her saying she is pro choice. Why didn't she have an abortion if they are so great.

So many things wrong here...
1. How does having four kids and being pro-choice make you a hypocrite? She used HER right to choice by CHOOSING to have four kids! She wasn't FORCED into it by, say, a Right-To-Life group like those you support. And abortions are surgical procedures - they aren't supposed to be "great" or "fun" or anything like that. They are an option for women who do not want a pregnancy - nothing more, nothing less - and an option that should never be taken off the table.

AIAMV is part of the white conspiracy to have white babies while getting minorities to fall for the lie of abortion and choice.

Sir, I believe someone spiked your communion wine. A "more white babies" conspiracy is nothing short of ludicrous. Hell, some prominent right-wing/religious commentators have stated the precise opposite - that "minorities" are breeding too often, and that white women need to "catch up!" (man, I'm using a lot of quotation marks)

No one on this site suprizes me. I don't know any atheists that can make a moral choice to save their life.

Then obviously you need to get out of your cloistered community and experience more out of life. Atheism does not equate to evil or immoral - it's simply a belief in the nonexistence of God, Allah, etc.

They worship gods. Instead of worship to a savior we see them worship themself.

Which makes these statements absolute bunk. NEXT!

Sorry for taking up so much space here, Possummomma. I just had to de-lurk to do some bonehead beatdown myself.

canucklehead said...

And it appears P-Momma and I were on the same wavelength in responding to your comment at the same time.
Dang.

Queen Pickle said...

A little OT, but does it bug the holy bejeezus out of anyone but me that these morons stand outside picketing Planned Parenthood when most of the women going into PP are just there for checkups or other standard care, even to pick up birth control (so they won't NEED an abortion)? In fact, our local PP doesn't even DO abortions. Doesn't stop the moron parade. How many women, on their way in just to pick up bc, have been frightened away by the evangelical hoards? How many of those women were later on faced with the abortion decision because of lack of birth control, due to said hoard? So, it is entirely possible, that these fundies with dead baby picket signs are actually CAUSING abortions? Sure, maybe it's a stretch, but having run into these idiots personally, I could see someone more easily intimidated taking the easy route and heading back to their car.

I used to go to PP, back when I didn't have insurance. After my not-so-great-wait-in-the-exam-room-naked-and-shivering-for-an-hour visit to the dr. my insurance company paid for (routine girl stuff check up), I think I'll go back to PP. There, I was treated with respect, not kept waiting, and even had a woman do the spelunking. May as well visit the mechanic that owns a car, KWIM?

As for the race card that John played, where does he think that minority girls get their birth control and yearly exams? That's right: Planned Parenthood and many of the other so called abortion clinics.

Now I have to go clean something because I'm just that annoyed. Give 'em hell, PM!

Saurian200 said...

John R,

I don't think any talk like this should be public.

So are you against free speech in general or just the speech that you specifically disagree with?

Perhaps your next statement answers my question.

This whole blog should be taken donw for its blasphemy.

So your a theocrat. You believe that all of society should conform to your religious views. That really says everything we need to know about you.

AIAMV is the real hypocrite and yes I can spell. She has four kids and stands her saying she is pro choice. Why didn't she have an abortion if they are so great.

You do know the difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion.

Possummomma, as with the majority of people who describe themselves as pro-choice, is not encouraging people to get abortions, she mearly feels that the ability to get an abortion ahould not be limited by the government.

The fact that she didn't abort her children isn't at odds with the position. It is not hypocritical, like say, someone who is against abortion saying that it would be best for a fetus to be aborted.

AIAMV is part of the white conspiracy to have white babies while getting minorities to fall for the lie of abortion and choice.

I have trouble accepting that you could be stupid enough to believe something like this.

And how is abortion a lie? Yes, you can really get an abortion if you are pregnant. They do happen.

No one on this site suprizes me. I don't know any atheists that can make a moral choice to save their life.

Odds are you know many athiests that you accept as moral people, you just don't relize they are atheists.

After all, when you meet someone new do you introduce yourself like this, "Hi, I'm John and here is my position on the existence of any god or gods."

Most people don't do that either.

They worship gods. Instead of worship to a savior we see them worship themself.

Please show where either I, Possummomma, or anyone else has demonstrated worship of themselves.

Saurian200 said...

Terra,

saurian: my apologies to you, as well, for basically saying the same thing. I was taking a long time to write my comment and should have checked to see if there were any others first.

No problem.

I've done that on numerous occasions. (In fact I may have just done it again.) ;)

Maybe if enough people repeat these things John R will learn something. One can hope at least.

Russ said...

Dear Mr. Raybenhaus,

You said, "I don't think any talk like this should be public. This whole blog should be taken donw for its blasphemy." Frankly, John, statements like this make it almost impossible for me - probably for many others gathering here as well - to give serious consideration to anything you have to say. Personally, I really do not like to simply dismiss people, since I know that differences as simple as language often keep me from understanding. I'm willing to work at comprehending, but when you start with words like these you come off, not as worthy of serious engagement, but instead as rather silly.

This talk - that is, the analysis and criticism of religion - these ideas and concepts need desperately to be public in every age and time. Without regular open public discussion of issues related to religion and religious practices, looking at Catholicism as an example, centuries can pass wherein the rape of children becomes part of the religious institutional norm. Each time a known Roman Catholic rapist priest was disclosed, the church swept it under the rug as best it could, then actually promoted those immoral pedophilic and rapist acts by providing the pervert with a new completely unsuspecting batch of victims in a different parish. Realize this John: not having the church activities, attitudes, and ideas fully available for public scrutiny, allowed it to become an institutional pimp for pervert priests, a role it continues to play even today. Notice, John, that the god you claim we here are blaspheming, has never done anything to protect the innocent children victimized under the full authority of the Catholic church.

Now, JR, I'm going to say something that is a bit abrasive, but this is how I see it: If your useless god would get off its dead ass and do something useful like protect children from pedophile priests or answer prayers as it claims in the Gospels, it would be apparent even to non-believers, but it does nothing at all. Religious faith does not mean shit, John, if the thing you place your faith in does nothing. Religious faith does not mean shit, John, if you must manufacture examples of your god at work by intentionally misunderstanding the natural world, science, and mathematics. Religious faith does not mean shit, John, when the miracles proping it up are observably just poorly understood natural phenomena, medical misdiagnoses, or deep meaning ascribed to 100 percent supernatural-free coincidences. Your religious faith counts for exactly zilch.

John, if you really meant, "I don't know any atheists that can make a moral choice to save their life," it's clear you know no atheists since every person with a functioning mind living in the presence of others makes moral decisions.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

Sorry can't resist:

Jehova Jehova Jehova

Eagerly awaiting the stones

Bwian said...

I'm going to side with John on this one: emails are supposed to be private. And if I held his views, I would certainly keep them as private as possible, since exposure to, well, just about anything would show how silly they are.

I've got two theories on the spelling thing, though, which I wanted to share. The first and more obvious one: he's not spelling hypocrites or Hippocrates correctly because they are Greek cognates, and God clearly doesn't want us to speak Greek. If he did, he would have written the Bible in Greek. (What was that? It was as though millions of irony meters cried out, and were suddenly silenced...)

The second theory is darker. He claims he can spell, but clearly his actions belie his words. This clearly means that he is threatening to cast spells on us! Dark, dangerous spells, like in D&D manuals and Harry Potter books. Keep an eye out for evil ju-ju, people. Be safe out there.

Allyson said...

I'm going to side with John on this one: emails are supposed to be private. And if I held his views, I would certainly keep them as private as possible, since exposure to, well, just about anything would show how silly they are.

I am going to agree that the email issue is a little tricky, but just to play Devil's Advocate, I'm going to cite precedence here. Pmomma has routinely published responses to emails in her blog. I assume that since John reads this blog, he'd know that, and if he didn't want his email publicized, he would take care to ensure that at the very least he was kept anonymous.

Pmomma, it might help for you to put an email policy on the front of this blog just to keep people from getting confused.

Allyson said...

How many women, on their way in just to pick up bc, have been frightened away by the evangelical hoards? How many of those women were later on faced with the abortion decision because of lack of birth control, due to said hoard? So, it is entirely possible, that these fundies with dead baby picket signs are actually CAUSING abortions?

Yes, it might be a bit of a stretch, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.

As a student, I'm in a tough spot at the moment. My University used to offer women birth control pills for $6 a month. But now, due to funding issues, we have to pay full price ($30-$35 a month), which is way out of my price range. I can't afford insurance right now, either. The nearest Planned Parenthood isn't on any of the local bus routes, and I don't have a car . . . I'm not going to give up my birth control, but there are a ton of frustrations that poor women have to put up with. I can definitely find a way around this situation somehow, (my fiance has offered to pay for half, or I can try to borrow a car to PP), it's just incredibly aggravating, and I don't feel like I have many outlets for getting help.

amarullis said...

I drive by a Planned Parenthood everyday coming home from work. Most days there are a few protesters standing outside the gate with bloody pictures. Interestingly, the protesters are never there when it is raining or extremely hot.

It was scary for me when I had to go myself, because I had no insurance and was experiencing very scary gynecological problems. I went anyway, determined to stand up for myself if confronted. As it happened the day of my appointment was a very hot day, so the protesters did not show.

Planned Parenthood is a wonderful place. They really care, actually listen, and allow as much time as you need to discuss your situation (unlike many doctors). They have helped me, and several of my friends, afford exams and medications (not just birth control) when we did not have insurance. They diagnosed one of my friends with an endometrial cyst, which required surgery. They helped her find a surgeon who would do the surgery at discount and allow her to pay as she could without interest.

I have thought about standing outside the clinic myself, with a sign letting people know that Planned Parenthood saves lives and maintains the reproductive health of women. I encourage any woman without insurance to go there

AlisonM said...

I have yet to see any protesters out genuinely saving babies by offering to adopt them, or financially sponsor the mother, or give them free birth control so they don't get pregnant again.

This is undoubtedly a hoax - is there any place in America where $50K can get you a car, a downpayment on a house, AND the start of a college fund? Come on. It is, however, bringing hypocrites out of the woodwork, and as such, is a good thing.

I always figured that if you did or said something that might come back to bite you later, you shouldn't do it or say it, regardless of whether you think you're doing/saying it privately or in secret. That being said, though, PMomma might want to let folks know that e-mail might not be kept private, especially provocative stuff that's germane to the blog topic. Just a CYA thing. Kinda also to protect her from folks who think it's also OK to make personal threats in e-mail, unlikely as we all know that to occur. ;)

Andrew said...

John R should have asked that PM keep the email private in his email. I am sure that she would have honored that request. Otherwise, it was fair game as anyone who reads this blog could tell you.

aimee said...

Having been to PP myself, I luckily had never had to deal with protestors. As far as I know, there weren't kids on the other side of the wall praying for me either like in Jesus Camp. The PP in Denver never offered abortions either.

I can see how people would be too worried to go in if people outside were being confrontational.

I think even if they don't offer abortions, the religious freaks don't want them offering advice in where to get one or telling their patients that there are all kinds of birth control out there. God I'm so glad I don't come from a Catholic background...

aimee said...

Oops, make that *Gawd*