Wednesday, February 07, 2007

Crossing lines.

A line was crossed.
Actions were taken.
The problem should be resolved.
Everything is fine,...we're all fine. I know some of you saw the unedited version of this post, and that's fine. Right now, I'm feeling very exposed and a little hesitant to say much.

I hope you all understand. Hopefully, I'll get back to my normal, everyday, silly blog posts.

41 comments:

Cristina said...

Yikes! I've been following the drama for a while with morbid fascination. I hope that's the LAST you hear of William. Got here from Pharyngula and am a first-time commenter, love the blog, and have become a big fan. Good luck--you and your kids are amazing.

Stephanie said...

How scary...I'm glad you were able to get an order of protection. Let me guess, is W going to cry persecution now? I'm glad everyone is OK.

Joe said...

Sweet Jesus, what a wacko! I'm glad all is well in Possum land. I'm impresses that one of the other students had the vision to see something was amiss and chose to get involved. Phew, I just can't believe it.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

I'm impresses that one of the other students had the vision to see something was amiss and chose to get involved. Phew,
Me, too. Luckily, he's one of the kids that hangs out, on occasion, to play basketball in the drive-way (because one of Possum#1's friends is someone he's interested in). But, yeah...we've thanked him numerous times.

Russ said...

P-Momma,

Thank you for the feedback. I've been concerned that maybe Willy had gone all witchhunt on you, or on a little Possum. He got too close for my comfort. I've been checking the site every half hour or so for status reports. If there's a way to give that heroic young man a commendation please let me know.

P-Momma, blog communities can't be quite as intimate as next door neighbors, but please understand that some of us have happened, quite by accident, into your sphere of influence, we've been moved by our shared experience and we return time and again because we feel better when we do. Please know that although we can't comfort you with a hug, or a daisy in a bud vase, out here, beyond the wires, the servers, the satellites and routers, there are real caring concerned people hoping for the best for you and your family.

Russ

darrell said...

I had imagined that the incident you spoke about was something William did to you and it upset me...but the fact that he went after one of your possums makes me really sick. I can't even imagine what a twisted individual he must be to engage a child when the conflict he's having is with the child's parent. I'm glad everything came out okay, and I'm glad that other boy had the presence of mind to stand up for Possum #1.

Jeebus H. Toasterchrist there is a HUGE difference between handing out the Bible and tracking down someone's child by figuring out their bus route...I'd imagine the police saw that difference right away.

Much love and respect from Japan.

phats said...

[Paul, New Zealand]

Dear P-momma and possum#1,

What a shocker! That experience doesn't sound like much fun for either of you.

Well, now there is a lovely example of how religion in general -and Christianity in this particular instance- can help turn someone from a slightly hamfisted but probably well-meaning individual into an unhealthy neurotic. You can just sense how this whole saga has been playing on his mind, day in and day out, for weeks to arrive at this twisted conclusion.

I can't help wondering how this might have turned out if he'd just chosen to react differently to possum#1's original essay.

Imagine if he had tackled your arguments rationally:
(This is what I would have written)

Dear possum#1,
First, congratulations on your superbly written essay! I just want you to be careful not to dismiss all Christians just because one of them, your teacher, appears to have defaulted to Christianity without considering or understanding other faiths, cultures and outlooks on life, and without ever questioning her presupposed existence of God. Not all Christians exhibit these faults- some of them spend years examining and developing arguments and justifications for their faith. C. S. Lewis for example spent much of his life examining arguments for or against Christianity. (Whether he arrived at valid arguments or not is for you to decide.)
The problem that you experienced in your school is not one unique to Christianity or even Religions in general - any person that grows up in a sheltered culture, without curiosity or self-reflection will develop a wealth of preconceptions and prejudices. Christianity is in significant part responsible for sheltering many people in the U.S. from alternative world-views, but it is not the only institution or belief that does this. Communist countries like North Korea routinely indoctrinate their citizens and prevent them from discovering or learning from the wider world around them- yet most forms of Communism seem fundamentally opposed to all religion. In our countries, freedom of speech and the free press give us huge advantages, yet many of us still suffer from the same sickness, of unexamined lives. In New Zealand, where I live, simple geographic isolation means that my friends and I experience a lot less of other cultures and foreign ideas than we should. However, even worse than Christianity or Communism is something far more insidious - intellectual apathy, that state of having no curiosity about other viewpoints, no drive to learn, to develop. Even here in the US, and NZ, with education and a free press, we suffer from it.
In a world that is becoming increasingly interconnected, ignorance and intolerance -whether disguised within religion or apart from it- are enemies that humankind must conquer or we shall all surely perish.
Yet in your succinct and heartfelt essay, you have displayed perhaps more than you imagined; the ability to analyze and evaluate arguments, to deconstruct your setting and environment, to call into question the mundane activities you find yourself caught in, and even -hardest of all- your own beliefs. To ask the 'why?' and the 'how could this world be better?'- that precious attitude, the precocious and irreverent and curious and powerfully aware outlook that you display; those qualities are the only hope our societies have to avert collapsing under the weight of our own preconceptions. Possum#1, I sincerely hope that I have communicated here how greatly I admire you, and how well I wish you in all of your endeavors.


Paul (silentsanta)

Milo Johnson said...

What a repugnant, cowardly wretch. Please be vigilant. People who are that crazy should be treated as gingerly as wild animals. Don't stop speaking the truth, just stay alert.

Martin Wagner said...

Hey possummomma. I've spread the word about this crazy business over at the Atheist Experience. This guy's bullshit is out of control and moving well into dangerous territory. The more people who know what you're experiencing from William, the safer you'll be all around.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

The more people who know what you're experiencing from William, the safer you'll be all around.

Yeah. I saw that on the AE blog.

I don't exactly know how spreading the word will make me safer, but I appreciate the sentiment.

Right now I'm stuck in a place where I feel like I've unnecessarily put my children at risk. It's an incredibly bad feeling. I've been sitting here, for the last two hours, contemplating whether I should delete this journal entirely.

Russell made some great points, in his own blog, a few weeks ago. This has been a positive experience...in that, I've met a lot of supportive people and potential friends. However, right at this moment, I almost wish I had never shared P#1's essay. And, I certainly wished I had used that "delete comment" feature on a great deal of William's silliness. The temptation to lay all the blame on freak fundies is strong, but... as any mother would feel, I feel like I've let this go too far. I had the control to delete his comments and not give him the attention he, obviously, desired.

thirdtimelucky said...

I just started reading your blog recently and had to comment. I am horrified at Williams actions and I hope the police getting involved will make him come to his senses (if he has any) or at least he'll leave you alone.

I really hope any children I have will be as sensible and intelligent as yours seem to be.

By the way my nephew who attends one of the many church of England primary schools funded by the state in the UK (he has no choice it's the only school in the village) recently asked a visiting church man (I think it was a bishop) "So what do you actually do?". Made me so proud.

Jake said...

Whether you share what happened is entirely up to you and your sense of safety. Those of us (like me) who are burning with curiosity because we missed the unedited post: Not your problem. Your problem is taking care of yourself and your children as best you can. If that means the rest of us get to just be curious forever, so be it.

Sean the Blogonaut said...

Take a short vacation from the blog. I think it is important that you blog as an atheist but like I said before, family comes first.

Jessa said...

I'm not even sure what to say, other than that I'm pretty disturbed by what happened. I hope that you don't have to deal with him anymore, as he's definitely crossed several lines here.

Alyx said...

Wow. Just... wow.

Of course the safety of your kids and you is of primary importance. But I sincerely hope you can keep your blog up if it doesnt' affect your safety.

Possum #1's essay was truly brilliant, and it seems much good has come of sharing it with the public. And "Minister" William's lunacy being exposed publicly has done good, too, hopefully. Without essays like P1's and stories like yours, many many people do believe the lies, and don't believe in the asshattery that the so-called "Christian" nutjobs engage in. It's like homosexuals coming out -- people feel free to engage in nasty, hurtful, and discriminatory behavior because they think "they don't know any gays" (or athiests, etc). And so they believe the lies.

But with kids involved, that ups the ante significantly. As I said in the beginning, do what you need to do to keep your kids and you safe. But if you can still keep your voice out and unsilenced, while still within that safety, please do so.

And even if you must withdraw your public presence, I give you my sincere thanks for sharing as much as you have up to now. And my thanks to Possum #1, too.

Thank you. :)

pmlyon said...

P-momma,

I'm glad you and yours are ok. My heart goes out to you.

I came here just recently by way of PZ and have really enjoyed your blog. I hope you can continue to blog, but, as everyone has said, you need to do what you feel is best for your family.

I know words from a stranger probably won't help much, but I really don't think you could have known how poorly William would turn out to behave. Try not to beat yourself up too much; you aren't responsible for his actions.

Paul

Atheist in Louisiana said...

Hi possummomma,

I've been following your blog since you posted possum #1's essay. I've been intrigued and inspired by you being such an open atheist not only on the net but in the "real world". I know that it's not easy to do anywhere, but I've been especially discouraged from being an open atheist here, especially to my family.

I'm very sorry for what you're family has been through recently, and I can only hope William gets what he deserves.

Allyson said...

I've been reading your blog for maybe two weeks now, and although I didn't see the unedited post, I've gotten a glimpse into what happened, and I'm so sorry. I'm glad everything is okay. Admittedly, when you didn't post for a few days, I was getting worried.

For what it's worth, I don't think you put your children at risk. This was not your fault under any circumstances.

I hope you feel able to continue blogging at some point. I really enjoy your writing. Take all the time you need. But I look forward to seeing posts from you again sometime.

Allyson said...

I've been reading your blog for maybe two weeks now, and although I didn't see the unedited post, I've gotten a glimpse into what happened, and I'm so sorry. I'm glad everything is okay. Admittedly, when you didn't post for a few days, I was getting worried.

For what it's worth, I don't think you put your children at risk. This was not your fault under any circumstances.

I hope you feel able to continue blogging at some point. I really enjoy your writing. Take all the time you need. But I look forward to seeing posts from you again sometime.

Toni said...

P-Momma

Shoot! What a pain to have to deal with stupid, yet aggressive people like that. I don't know what happened, but I can figure out some of it from the comments here.

Best of luck to you. I know I don't know you and yours, but I have been visiting for a while. His reaction vs. your reaction just proves who the better person is here.

If you lived in Utah, I would be more than happy to send my 375 pound ex football playing samoan husband to talk to William and explained to him exactly why his actions make baby jesus cry.

Nance said...

A protection order doesn't really do much though. It is only something to enforce after the next incident takes place.

How's that for a happy thought? Sorry. :(

But you are a smart bunch and I'm sure you've made whatever transportation or other changes seem to be indicated.

It is a sad state of affairs when freely expressing your ideas brings out this ugly side of people and I'm sorry your children are having to witness any of this.

You and your children will be in our thoughts.

Nance

Anonymous said...

[zendruid]

Jesus wept.

I understand, Possummomma, how the publicity is quite uncomfortable, and how your blog has become a battleground of sorts, but it would be a Pyrrhic victory for whats-his-name, for you to fold.

Projection of guilt is his specialty. I'd love to see him take his own medicine.

You are not to blame. Do not accept the guilt.

You have many friends out here in "the tubes".

Deoridhe said...

I'm glad you and your children are all right. Best wishes for your continued safety; I wish there was more I could do.

Carlie said...

Oh, my goodness. I didn't see the unedited post either, but can glean a bit of what must have happened from the comments. I can't believe how obsessed William must have gotten if he found your house and came over in person to proselytize at possum#1. Having been raised in fundamentalist world, I'll try to offer reassurance that I'm sure that he meant no real harm, and may have thought he was helping somehow. Not to belittle the point that he overstepped about a hundred boundary lines, acted creepy and stalkerish, and fully deserves not only a court order, but also complete disclosure in the local newspaper to the tune of "local pastor slapped with restraining order against a minor", but just to say that he probably didn't honestly have evil in mind, if that makes you feel any better at all.

You have to do what is right and safe for your family, but I want to stress to you and to possum#1 that her essay was wonderful, and just what many people need to read, and that the one wingnut response from it is dwarfed in magnitude by the number of people who have been positively affected by it. I apologize on behalf of the entire internet that that one crazy person happened to live close enough to be a possible real threat. You've had a lot to deal with in the last month or so - a huge uptick in traffic from newbies like me, surprising unwanted attention; I think everyone would understand if you need to take some time off but would also love to see you continue, either now or in the future.

Kilted Dad said...

Possummomma,
Please know that you are not alone. We're here if you need us. Take care, stay safe.

daj said...

"Having been raised in fundamentalist world, I'll try to offer reassurance that I'm sure that he meant no real harm, and may have thought he was helping somehow."

I too was raised in a very fundamentalist home. Without direct knowledge of this goditiot, your comment is irresponsible. All fundamentalists share one common trait - they are nuts and answer only to their own personal diety.

Having dealt with these wackos in relation to abortions, i can assure you that there is no telling what his intentions were, but i would NEVER assume they were benign. He is exactly the reason I took advantage of the concealed handgun law in Texas. He approaches or threatens one of my girls, he is a dead man. Then he can talk with his "savior" about his methods and intentions.

AJ, M.D.

daj said...

"Having been raised in fundamentalist world, I'll try to offer reassurance that I'm sure that he meant no real harm, and may have thought he was helping somehow."

I too was raised in a very fundamentalist home. Without direct knowledge of this goditiot, your comment is irresponsible. All fundamentalists share one common trait - they are nuts and answer only to their own personal diety.

Having dealt with these wackos in relation to abortions, i can assure you that there is no telling what his intentions were, but i would NEVER assume they were benign. He is exactly the reason I took advantage of the concealed handgun law in Texas. He approaches or threatens one of my girls, he is a dead man. Then he can talk with his "savior" about his methods and intentions.

AJ, M.D.

Margaret said...

"Having been raised in fundamentalist world, I'll try to offer reassurance that I'm sure that he meant no real harm, and may have thought he was helping somehow."

There is nothing reassuring about that. Blaise Pascal "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."

P-Momma:

It is NOT your fault. I understand why you feel so: Possum Momma like Momma Bear, wants to protect her cubs/possums. But it is NOT your fault. Proud P-Momma was right to want to brag about her daughter's excellent work. And there was nothing in that excellent work that any sane person could could object to -- on the contrary, the ideas expressed are worthy of much respect. There are psychos out there, but we can't order our lives around the possibility that any chance encounter could trigger such a psycho.

Saurian200 said...

Possummomma,

I am horrified at what happened. (I read the post before you edited it.) It is truely shameful that in this day and age that talking about your religious beleifs or lack therof can result in this sort of treatment.

You say that you are reconsidering having this blog because you are afraid of the effects it might have on your family. It appalls me that some people are so intolerent that a blog like this even could have negative effects on your family.

Many other posters have said this already but I would like to repeat it because I agree, what has happened is not your fault. I know saying that might not bring much comfort because it doesn't provide any answers to the situation you now find yourself in but please remember that. It really is not your fault.

I hope that in the end you decide to continue this blog. More people need to see that atheists are normal people with normal families just like you and your family. Still, I understand that, like with any good mother, you have to do what you think is best for your children. If this situation should come to that unhappy conclusion and you decide that ending this blog really is what's best then please know that I as well as most of the people who have been following your posts will both understand and respect your decision.

Here's hoping that this story has a happy ending.

Saurian

LCR said...

Unbelievable! Well... unfortunately, no, I can believe it. I'm just so sorry that you and your family had to experience such fear because of the idiocy and intolerance of one thoughtless man.

I tried to place myself in your shoes, considering what I would do about the blog if something like this happened to my family.

Part of me would feel that nothing is more important than the welfare of my family and that I should stop blogging immediately. That would probably be my initial gut reaction.

But another part of me would not want my kids to see me bend to the whims of a person who is essentially a bully, wrapped in religious trappings. And ending the blog wouldn't end such encounters, it would only reduce the number of them.

To be honest, the safety issue would probably take priority and I would stop blogging, at least for a short time to let the issue blow over.

I thoroughly enjoy your blog and will miss my daily visits here if you go, but if that is to be your decision you need to know that you have a whole bunch of people out here who empathize completely with your situation, who support you, and who will be pulling for you and your family. We will also be eagerly awaiting your return when you choose to do so. :-)

Carlie said...

What I meant was that his intentions could very likely have been to persuade, not to do physical harm, and that depending on what he did, he might not have been acting too far out of the "mainstream" for fundamentalism. I certainly didn't mean it to sound like I'm excusing his actions. I was raised Southern Baptist, and cold-call door-to-door evangelizing is part and parcel of the whole shebang for that group. I'm just saying that going to someone's house to try and convince them of God isn't as far whacko in some circles as we'd like to believe, so he may be more of a groupthink whacko rather than a singularly unhinged one. He, and many other fundamentalists, might well act this way to anyone, not just possum.

Let me be clear: he was totally wrong. If he did nothing other than stand at the edge of the street and say hi as possum#1 walked by, he was horribly, horribly in the wrong. I don't know what else he did, I assume that it was much more invasive than that, and I think he deserves to have the book thrown at him for every type of harassment charge that can be brought up.

Trying to explain a little background is far removed from being an apologist. It may have looked like I was the latter in my earlier comment, but I absolutely was not trying to be.

Carlie said...

I'm kind of paranoid that I still can't be clear, so I spent awhile trying to figure out another way to say it since I'm obviously bad at it. Here goes.

A house call is weird, and the fact that it came from an internet contact is rightfully frightening. Creepy as it is, though, he probably didn't come up with the idea out of whole cloth - that's what these people do, and that's what he was taught. It's like a backwards etiquette class; they train people in social ineptness. You must ask people invasive questions, you must intrude on their private time, you must try to convince them you're right. That makes it no less scary, but might make him seem a little more pathetically pitiful than menacing. More importantly, if (and that's a big if) that's where he's coming from, then a restraining order might well be able to shock him into understanding that what he did was wrong and he can't do it again.

That was the only real point I was trying (badly) to make - that if it's a matter more of evangelical upbringing than of being truly mental, then the actions you took were perfect to show him that it was unacceptable behavior, and he might be able to learn from that and you wouldn't have to worry aobut hm specifically again.

slavdude said...

Sorry I'm coming late to the party, but I missed the drama of the past couple of days. Anyone care to enlighten me? (It doesn't have to be P-Momma.)

erin said...

I don't know what happened, though I can make a ballpark guess from some of the comments. But I'm glad you're safe, and I'm sorry that there are such creeps in the world. I'm glad that you're okay, and while I'd miss this blog, I think we'd all understand if you needed to distance yourself from it for awhile.

alisonm said...

I also missed the unedited post, but even hazarding a guess, William became awfully scary. He has NO RIGHT, regardless of his "good intentions" to impose himself in real life on you or any member of your family - especially your kids. Yes, I'd go with informing the press, because it would actually give you another layer of protection. Maybe he'll even have to relocate. . .if nothing else, I'd circulate a picture of him among the neighbors, because they'll be keeping an eye out more effectively than the police ever could. Heck, if it weren't illegal, I'd distribute his picture to all the parents at the school. Regardless of what his status may or may not be among the religious, people will be horrified by ANYONE tracking down a child, so the more people know, the safer you'll be, IMO. I'd be absolutely furious, myself, and make as big a scene as I could to get this out in the open if it were my kids - but that's me, and I'm furious even thinking about it right now. Keep in mind another quote from Handmaid's Tale, possummomma, "Nolite te bastardes carborundum."

Anonymous said...

I completely understand the concern for your children, and your feelings of regret for having ever published it in the first place. Although I don't know the exact nature of the events, anything requiring the involvement of the police and a restraining order is something no one wants their children near.

I do hope, however, you take some time to reflect on the good that has come from publishing Possum #1's remarkable essay. I personally have shown the essay to several friends and colleagues as your daughter is a wonderful example of the empathy and compassion that can be developed in children who are taught to honestly inquire about the nature of the world they live in. Has it changed the world? No. Has it helped change or at least open a few minds about the possibility of being moral without God. Most definitely. I congratulate Possum#1 for having helped to advance the discussion of the possibilities of human morality.

Berlzebub said...

P-Momma,

I'm sorry I missed the unedited post, but I am glad that it is all being taken care of. As many have said already, you and the little possum have greatly impressed me. Both with your eloquence (although I must admit possum#1 is slightly more eloquent LOL), and your strength of character. I have to admit, I laughed out loud (at work) when I read "Mom, don't bait the Baptist."

Anyway, I'm glad you and yours are okay, and that things are being dealt with.

Due to some recent happenings, I've decided to become more open about my atheism. Not the least of which is how you and possum #1 were treated by William.

-Berlzebub

Russ said...

P-Momma,

Please read the following, if only to guage the depth of my outrage over this William incident. Then, if you feel you must, remove it. I don't want to rekindle dying embers but I feel a need to get this off my chest.

The following are my thoughts and my thoughts alone, born of a deep sense of community obligation, especially the obligation to protect our children.

Baptist Minister William should be removed from the ministry, period.

Beyond the practical matters for Baptist Minister William's flock, public loss of Baptist moral credibility and significantly increased insurance risk - he intentionally violated the law in order to carry out his Baptist duties, for example(note that church leaders are morally and contractually bound to report this incident to their insurance companies), this congregation needs to consider the messages they are sending to the community if they don't give William the boot. They owe it to themselves and the community to send this sociopath packing.

If the Baptist "faith" community employing William doesn't send the sociopath packing, their message to the public will be, "We Baptists wholeheartedly support Baptist Minister William's predatory stalking of young girls."

If the Baptist "faith" community employing William doesn't send the sociopath packing, they will be saying to all of us, "We Baptists will support any immorality if done for Baptist reasons."

If the Baptist "faith" community employing William doesn't send the sociopath packing, we should say to them, "Baptists represent a threat to our community, leave now."

Baptist child stalkers should be held no less accountable than Catholic clergy who sexually abuse children. The Catholic "faith" community has always supported and protected sexual molestation of children by its clergy, and, only now after the sexual victimization of millions of vulnerable innocents is the Catholic behemoth being called to justice for centuries of moral turpitude. Nevertheless, Catholic clergy still sexually ravage children wherever media and legal systems can't expose it. Abusing children is an inherent part of the Catholic clergy-specific morality. My hope is that Baptist clergy don't share a similarly abhorrent code of ethics.

For professional clergy there is no clear distinction between personal and professional, so essentially all activities performed by clergy can be construed to be on the church's behalf or serving its interests. Baptist Minister William exposes the culpability of the Baptist Church since it pays his salary, provides him a workplace, and supports an ethical structure through which a mature adult apparently cannot learn by middle age that stalking young girls is by community standards - and we can only hope by Baptist standards as well - immoral and therefore an unacceptable behavior. The Baptist church may well have accessory culpability for providing him with a vehicle, books, telephones, computers, staff or other materials and resources used in planning or committing a crime.

Baptist Minister William acted in a willful pre-meditated and planned manner showing that his decades of moral training in the Baptist tradition leaves him morally out of touch with the rest of society. Since he clearly sees this as acceptable, the community has a right to know if he has done it before to others, and steps must be taken to assure that he can't act out his Baptist stalking morality against others with perhaps an even less positive outcome.

Christian clergy, especially fundamentalists, are constantly telling us how if we would only live according their example, according to their morality, then this society will be a better place. As a Baptist clergyman, William behaves according to Baptist standards, so we are quite fortunate, indeed, that community standards supersede Baptist's standards in the world at large and more specifically in our legal system.

Then, too, religious leaders like Baptist Minister William are always saying how they answer to a power greater than our secular laws. Here, we see the result.

If the Baptist "faith" community employing William doesn't send the sociopath packing, the general welfare of the community is best served by holding William and the other church leaders directly accountable in a court of law for material damages associated with law enforcement and punitive damages for risk of injury to a minor. Society has the right to protect itself from the criminally insane, even if they hide in Baptist churches.

Atheist in a mini van. said...

Both with your eloquence (although I must admit possum#1 is slightly more eloquent LOL), and your strength of character.

LOL!! I have to say that I agree with you. I've had several years in which no one has been correcting my contortions of the English language. I'm not too proud to admit that I've often yell out, "Hey! Does this sentence need a color or a semi-colon?" P#1 and P#2 love correcting my grammatical errors. It keeps me humble and let's them feel superior. ;)

Boss Foxx said...

I can't recall if I became aware of this via Science Blogs or another site, but sufficed to say that I am absolutely disgusted by this William fellow. I can only imagine what kind of reaction I might have to someone as vile as this man.

And while I have no idea what it was that was originally in this specific blog before it was edited, I'm willing to bet that I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

And that essay was top drawer by the way. Wish I wrote that well in grad school. :)

Carlie said...

Russ - you said it so well. I think your post should be sent as a letter to William's congregation; not just to the church, since that would go straight to the pastor, but as separate letters to all of the trustees and deacons (p-mamma has a friend there, right? so should have access to that info). Heck, I'd stand outside the building and hand out copies on a Sunday morning to everyone walking in.

I'm afraid they still might not get it, though.